Thoughts on degree qualifications

I've seen the raging debates about the OCP qualification and I wondered what everyones thoughts were on the requirement for a Computer/Science based degree. I'm of the opinion that if you can do the job then it doesnt matter, but I'm also aware that some employers wont grant an interview without a relevant degree.
I personally kind of stumbled into a career in computing. I did a Business Studies degree but got a job first in Operations and then fell into DBA'ing which I've been doing for 9 or so months (and thoroughly enjoying). I've been toying with the idea of doing a part time Computing degree (once I've got my last two OCP exams out of the way) because I feel it would give me a deeper understanding of computing generally (as well as improving my employment prospects).
Any opinions from anyone?

IMHO, an advanced degree (AS or above) is an absolute requirement for a DBA job. Sure a CS/CE degree would be preferred, but not a requirement.

howly if you come from business area you can dig yourself to the hole of Oracle Applications (if you can suffer of course :D )

Thing is I've been in IT for 5 years now - 4 in Ops/Ops Analyst role writing batch job etc on UNIX, and more recently a DBA role. Because I dont have a computing degree background the only formal training I've had is week courses for Shell scripting/SQL etc. I feel that I'm particularly weak on the programming side so thought that a part-time degree would make up for the shortfall. Problem being its a big commitment that'll take years. Would I be risking not getting jobs in the future if I didnt do it even with solid DBA experience?

IMHO, yes. Sure there are people out there that are DBAs and don't have degrees ([/i] and I don't want to here from all of them [/i]) , and maybe you'll be one of them. However, I believe you are limiting your oportunities in the future by not having a degree.

Bill Gates and Larry Eillison never had a degree in any subject.

Do not worry about the degree. What you need to are mathematical skill, understanding business processes, ability to solve problems, good listening, communication, and the best basic instinct, work smart not hard, be a front runner, ....

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Originally posted by tamilselvan
Bill Gates and Larry Eillison never had a degree in any subject.

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Joe the service station attendant and John the plummer don't have a degree either. What's that prove?

I think Bill Gates and Larry had their Honorable degrees now!!!. So does Michael Dell, from university of Texas Business School.

Taking a degree is no harm and worth the investment. Remember, enrolling in a degree program doesn't teach you how to learn a language, it would teach in depth on the programming concepts. How to build an efficient structure? You learn the datastructures and etc which are the back bone for computing. Yes any one can crunch numbers, knowing on how to crunch them efficiently is what matters, that is what the degree teaches you...

I know many would disagree, but would also listen to others view point.


"We are all learning!
It is an evolving process,
that has no end ..."



Sam

Having a degree is not a waste. But if one doesn't have a degree, he/she needs not worry about that. There are plenty of ways one can learn a subject.

I hereby give a honorable degree (let him choose a subject) to Fraze.

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Originally posted by tamilselvan

I hereby give a honorable degree (let him choose a subject) to Fraze.

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http://www.plauder-smilies.de/party/singer.gifI here by name the university as University of TamilSelvan

No fun, No Life . :D

Sam

Yes, you could do your job without a degree. But you would miss so many keg parties.

Seriously though, the degree will cover more than the dba concepts and methodologies. It will give you insight on accounting, marketing, engineering, etc, etc. This will help you more in the long run than in the short run. Understanding about general business will help you get that dreaded management position a little easier than sticking with the dba only methodogy.

Having a degree does not ensure anything like:
-- Ability
-- Knowledge
-- Comptenance
I say this becuase, of my past experience. I was primarily Java developer before being a full-time DBA (OK I still do some Java). When I was a programmer, I saw and repaired many projects by people with degrees. So, these people got the degree to get the money. They really did not care about their career and it showed in what they created.

But, a degree does open doors to a future like:
-- Project Management
-- Senior Position (i.e Sr. DBA)
-- or a career change
I am 30 and I am going to get my degree in CS and maybe a Masters in MIS.

Here is my 2 cents. I think having a degree is important simply because you can train a monkey to do things but you can't train a monkey to think. I think most universities these days teach their students learn how to think (analytical skills). If you want to learn technicals skills go to technical college or get some technical books. Given the demand in the IT industry in the last couple of years , I don't think you need a degree to get an IT job (but i think it's easier to get a job w/ a degree). For other industries or professionals (e.g Petroleum, Biotech) you can't go far without a degree.

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Originally posted by Zaggy
I saw and repaired many projects by people with degrees.

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You should also remember No baby walks the moment it was born!

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Originally posted by Zaggy

So, these people got the degree to get the money.

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Isn't that the final moto of every individual,including you and me.

Ability: Every individual posses it. Intrest is the match that is needed to get it to light.

Knowledge: It is some thing you acquire on the road and widen it on the course of your journy of learning. ( No baby that talks the moment it was born. It is the nurture and teaching that make him/her to learn to talk)

Competence: Its the environment that builds it.

Every individual in this world posses all these capabilities.

Too much of philosophy!!! :)

Sam

[Edited by sambavan on 09-25-2001 at 03:28 PM]

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Originally posted by Zaggy
Having a degree does not ensure anything like:
-- Ability
-- Knowledge
-- Comptenance

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The same could be said about people without a degree :-)

In my opinion, academically educated people (computer science, maths, etc.) make often better Oracle DBAs since they comprehend easier the theoretical aspects of Oracle: normalization, Cartesian products, etc.

You could get the Orracle experience without a degree, you could create many users, tablespaces, perform hot, cold, warm, whatever backups but you will always lack something on a much deeper level.

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I am 30 and I am going to get my degree in CS and maybe a Masters in MIS.

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Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally posted by tamilselvan

I hereby give a honorable degree (let him choose a subject) to Fraze.

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I'd like a degree in Efective Methods of Winning the Lottery please!

Many thanks for the responses. To be honest I think it'd be an idea to go ahead and complete a degree for many of the reason cited by you all. Even though I'm nearly OCP qualifed (a different argument about the worth of it!) and have a solid DBA role, I do definately lack a deeper understanding that I think a degree would provide. Now I'll have to try and persuade the boss (and the wife :-) ) thats its worth the investment of time and money!!

Fraze,

Please understand me correctly. I am NOT against you obtaining a degree in any subject. I completed BS (Maths) and MS (Statistics) in 1981. There was no exclusive computer science courses in 70s and early 80s. At that time, only 2 months courses on BASIC , FORTRAN and COBOL were available. Candidates who attended for the programming posts were purely tested on their mathematical skills. Since I was very much interested in programming in early 80s, I bought all the available computer books and learned the subjects. I did not go to college to study computer science. After I started working with the computer, I learned more.

Today, Computer Science is a big field. You can find 4 years degree course all over the world. If you have already a degree in Business Management, that will help you to become a Manager or higher level. What I see is you are moving away from management career to technical career.

Good Luck.

Earning a degree is an important accomplishment, but all too often, it does not reflect a candidate's level of motivation. In the US, grade inflation is rampant and the "pay your fee and get your B" philosophy is too common. A degree in Computer Science, Engineering, or the hard sciences isn't easy.

In my opinion, one can get a reasonable assessment of a candidate's ability, knowledge and experience from interviews and references. Motivation and dedication are hard to determine though.

What role do you believe a degree plays in the current IT job market, and have you observed any shifts in the industry's perspective on formal education over the years?

Hello!

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Good luck :)