Certified DBA and So What?

[grjohnson]

4 years DBA experince in one job might match 2 years to somebody elses other job. There are different DBA's also, especially in large orgnisations, Application DBAs may specialize in Perf Tun, whilst Technical DBAs specialise in B&R. So taking years experience solely into consideration is sometimes deceiving. You can still get bad DBA's with 4 years experience.

[marist89]

I'm not sure what the do in other parts of the world, but I like to interview my candidates before I offer them a job. 99% of the time I can tell if somebody is BSing me. If you do manage to BS me, I'll know I made a mistake in the first 5 days.

[grjohnson]

"A Jr. DBA is not an entry level job". The position was for me. Straight out of University and into a Support role in a DBA team. I know some Developers who have NO idea about DBA tasks, so why would they make a better DBA than a fresh grad? Some graduates can code better than people who been in the commercial industry for a number of years.

It's all about sharing knowledge and helping each other, I'm sure you'd have been helped on at least one occasion by somebody of lesser experience than yourself. Take each person on their merit and don't consider employing somebody as a DBA entirely on years experience, you might end up hiring the wrong person for the job.

[marist89]

Originally posted by grjohnson
"A Jr. DBA is not an entry level job". The position was for me. Straight out of University and into a Support role in a DBA team.

Good for you. However, that would never happen in my company. The DBA role is way to critical to hand over to somebody that has no experience.

I know some Developers who have NO idea about DBA tasks, so why would they make a better DBA than a fresh grad? Some graduates can code better than people who been in the commercial industry for a number of years.

I know some DBA's that have no idea of DBA tasks, but that's another thread.

A developer with 4 years experience is a better DBA then somebody right out of school because they understand PROCESS. They know that production is sacred. They know that you always have a backup plan to your backup plan. They learn these things because at one time or another their a%# was on the line and they learned how to do it better next time.

People right out of school take shortcuts because they use "cool" technology or because they don't know any better. I have made some of these same mistakes myself over the years. However, if I think about how I did things 15 years ago, I wouldn't let myself on my DEVELOPMENT environment let alone PRODUCTION.

The DBA role in many corporations is a role of responsibility. When your business is the database, would you really turn it over to somebody that has no experience but spent 6 months studying and taking 5 tests? I wouldn't, but I don't rule the world yet...

[julian]

Originally posted by marist89

Originally posted by grjohnson

A developer with 4 years experience is a better DBA then somebody right out of school because they understand PROCESS. They know that production is sacred. They know that you always have a backup plan to your backup plan. They learn these things because at one time or another their a%# was on the line and they learned how to do it better next time.

You're absolutely right Jeff. It would be silly of me to argue with you on that one. However, there are DBAs with no education (meaning no college or university education). And this is something important for an Oracle DBA. The logical way of thinking, which you develop during you the time in college learning maths, computer science, etc. I have also met DBAs who use relational DBs but do not know what a relation is (not to mention a Cartesian Product).

I would rather have a junior DBA on my side with college education and OCP than a non-educated DBA with those 4 years as whatever.

OCP give some confidence and trust that the person knows how Oracle works. You don't have to explain to him what is (for example) fast_start_io_target or RMAN or a bitmap index.

However, OCP does not give it all. An OCP running an OPS for example, would not necessarily know (based on his OCP studies) how to determine the init.ora parameter gc_files_to_locks or say, what is SSX:X.

The DBA role in many corporations is a role of responsibility. When your business is the database, would you really turn it over to somebody that has no experience but spent 6 months studying and taking 5 tests? I wouldn't, but I don't rule the world yet...

I wouldn't eather but I might consider it :-)

[/B]

[marist89]

Originally posted by julian
However, there are DBAs with no education (meaning no college or university education). And this is something important for an Oracle DBA. The logical way of thinking, which you develop during you the time in college learning maths, computer science, etc. I have also met DBAs who use relational DBs but do not know what a relation is (not to mention a Cartesian Product).

I absolutely agree. I have wrongly assumed that anybody in the IT field has some sort of advanced degree. A degree is an absolute requirement.

[Mr.Hanky]

Ok Jeff now I am confused. It seems to me that by your standards, to even be considered for a DBA position you need 4 years experience as a developer/programmer and an advanced degree. Is this correct? What about a Junior DBA? What are your suggestions for breaking in the field, what if you have no college under your belt? Does that mean you will never be considered for a DBA position?

Thanks in advance,
MH

[marist89]

Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
Ok Jeff now I am confused. It seems to me that by your standards, to even be considered for a DBA position you need 4 years experience as a developer/programmer and an advanced degree. Is this correct? What about a Junior DBA?

Correct. For a Jr. DBA position, you should have at least an Associates degree with 4 years in IT.

What are your suggestions for breaking in the field, what if you have no college under your belt? Does that mean you will never be considered for a DBA position?

Breaking into the IT field? I would try to get a job at the help desk or in the PC support area. After you have been there for a year, try your hand at programming.

A DBA candidate with no College degree is definitely at a disadvantage. However, it's not something that can not be replaced by experience. If I was looking to fill a 2nd Jr. DBA slot, I might look at somebody that has 6 years in IT with 2 as a DBA.

[oddster]

Jeff,

I have have to say I've never read such a load of utter tripe before.

Why do you have to big your job into some kind of super-hero role??

Like many of the posts in this forum state, Oracle DBA work is about applied knowledge, thinking logically , and keeping your nerve under pressure

You sound like an extemely busy man, yet you have all this time to preach recruitment strategies to us?

Exactly which education system are you basing your undevided confidence in?? The British or Amercian?

I hope not.

I went to university (briefly) and could not believe the standard of academia that was acceptable. Having been to a public school it was nothing short of painful.

I left after 6 months and worked for a living (which is more than can be said for 40% of British graduates at the moment, who are probably still working out how to boil an egg!)


So - no degree, 2 years in IT sales, 6 months as a programmer, and now three years as an Oracle DBA, I am currently e supporting mission-critical OLTP and OLAP environments for Railtrack and London Underground in th UK,
and doing quite nicely out of it too.

...and I'm f***ing good at it to boot!!!

Go figure.

[marist89]

Originally posted by oddster
Why do you have to big your job into some kind of super-hero role??

Is it a CPU, is it a Disk Drive, no, it's Captain Oracle!

Like many of the posts in this forum state, Oracle DBA work is about applied knowledge, thinking logically , and keeping your nerve under pressure

You sound like an extemely busy man, yet you have all this time to preach recruitment strategies to us?

Make up your mind, am I a preacher or a Super-Hero?

Exactly which education system are you basing your undevided confidence in?? The British or Amercian?

My UNDIVIDED confidence is in the American education system, but I reserve the right to criticize the British system at a future date.

I hope not.

I went to university (briefly) and could not believe the standard of academia that was acceptable. Having been to a public school it was nothing short of painful.

I left after 6 months and worked for a living (which is more than can be said for 40% of British graduates at the moment, who are probably still working out how to boil an egg!)

So - no degree, 2 years in IT sales, 6 months as a programmer, and now three years as an Oracle DBA, I am currently e supporting mission-critical OLTP and OLAP environments for Railtrack and London Underground in th UK,
and doing quite nicely out of it too.

...and I'm f***ing good at it to boot!!!

Go figure.

Like I said before, good for you. It wouldn't happen in my shop, but kudos to you.