How do you understand this Oracle Documentation

Hi,

Could you please tell me how you understand the last sentence of the following paragraph. Please read it more than once and analyze the exacte meaning of each word:

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You can skip all tablespaces in the target database except the SYSTEM tablespace, undo tablespaces, and tablespaces containing rollback segments. RMAN does not check for completeness. For example, you can duplicate a data tablespace but not the tablespace containing the index for the data, or duplicate a tablespace that contains only one partition of a partitioned table.

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The entire document can be found under:
http://download-west.oracle.com/docs...ta27.htm#81553

possibily it means,

let say
1) Tablespace DATA_ONLY_TBSP has tables only, ( this has no problem to duplicate)
2) Tablespace INDEX_ONLY_TBSP has only indexes of somes tables residing on other tablespace which are not being duplicated , then this is not qualified.
3) Tablespace INDEX_DATA_TBSP has indexes and tables residing on the same tablespace, then this has no problem.
4) Tablespace PART_A_TBSP , this has one of the partitions of a table which is not being duplicated, this cannot be duplicated.

I guess these concepts are closely matching with Transportable tablespaces feature.

Jr

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Originally posted by mike9
Hi,

Could you please tell me how you understand the last sentence of the following paragraph. Please read it more than once and analyze the exacte meaning of each word:

The entire document can be found under:
http://download-west.oracle.com/docs...ta27.htm#81553

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Everytime I have duplicated a database using rman, I have duplicated the whole database. In fact, I did not know you could use rman to duplicate part of a database. But it would make sense the the duplicated database must have a complete data dictionary. But it seems that you can duplicate a database without duplicated the indexes if they are in their own tablespace, or it seems that you can duplicates one or more partitions in a partitioned table if the ones skipped are in their own tablespaces.

So unless you are doing an incomplete duplication of a database, this section doesn't matter. IMHO, doing a complete duplication of a database from a backup should be a simple thing to do.

Interesting, anyone else?

The reason why I'm asking is because I opend a TAR about this. I simply don't understand the sentance as Oracle Support wants that I understand it.

What is the meaning of the "BUT NOT" and the "OR"?

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RMAN does not check for completeness.

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I think that is the important point.
I agree with Gandolf's reading: RMAN duplicates whole tablespaces without worrying about the relationship of the contents.

The sentence you hightlighted just gives two examples, rather badly stated, joined by the OR. I think it is the "can . . . but not" structure that make it look like somthing is forbidden! What they mean is that it is permitted to do one without the other (tables without indexes).

I'd rewrite that sentence as:
For example, you can duplicate a data tablespace and not have to duplicate the tablespace containing the index for the data. You can duplicate a tablespace that contains only one partition of a partitioned table.

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Originally posted by gandolf989
... So unless you are doing an incomplete duplication of a database, this section doesn't matter. IMHO, doing a complete duplication of a database from a backup should be a simple thing to do.

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The problem is that our DWH DB has a size of 2.6 TB. To have accurate data on our integration DB we would like to duplicate only the tablespaces containing the most recent data.

I understand it STANKS!

The problem is that Oracle has different people write different chapters in these docs and some have a better grip on the language then others.
Notwithstanding, there should be some type of audit in place for some consistency.

No speka di engleesh.

There is a lot to be said for keeping things simple, although some (and you know who you are) would disagree.

And how does Mr.Hanky understand this sentence? What do they mean with this NOT and OR ?

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Originally posted by mike9
And how does Mr.Hanky understand this sentence? What do they mean with this NOT and OR ?

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Me, hell anyone in here will tell you I am a Neanderthal.

Anyhow, the problem is that the “OR” can be bound to interpretation two ways. It is either referring to the fact that you can or can not from the previous sentence.
Clear as mud, as we like to say.

I have read enough Oracle docs to have encountered this type of thing before. There are many a passage that need to be read and re-read over and over until the least common denominator is finally extrapolated. Personally, I feel this is bad documenting.

I threw in a couple of SAT words for Dave, how’d I do?

English is not my mther tongue.

But this sentence doesnt seem confusing to me. It says RMAN Does not check for completeness when duplicates and gives two possible scenarios (here is the OR)

1. You can duplicate a data tablespace but you dont necessary (you can skip them) need to duplicate the associated indexes if they reside in other tablespaces (here is the BUT NOT)
2. You can duplicate a tablespace containing a single partition, this would be the case where you have a tablespace for a partition

any other feedback is wellcome.

On monday I will tell you how Oracle Support wants that we understand this sentence.

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Originally posted by mike9
On monday I will tell you how Oracle Support wants that we understand this sentence.

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The suspense is killing :)

Would be glade to get some more feedback.
So tell me please how YOU understand the last sentence of the following paragraph (I'm not interested to know how it realy works but only how you interpret the text).

Quote:

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You can skip all tablespaces in the target database except the SYSTEM tablespace, undo tablespaces, and tablespaces containing rollback segments. RMAN does not check for completeness. For example, you can duplicate a data tablespace but not the tablespace containing the index for the data, or duplicate a tablespace that contains only one partition of a partitioned table.

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http://download-west.oracle.com/docs...ta27.htm#81553

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Originally posted by mike9
Would be glade to get some more feedback.
So tell me please how YOU understand the last sentence of the following paragraph (I'm not interested to know how it realy works but only how you interpret the text).http://download-west.oracle.com/docs...ta27.htm#81553

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sounds obvious to me - when duplicating data intergirty isnt maintained or checked for

I wonder what is so confusing in that paragraph, even I understand it fully

To me, it's ambiguous or possibly wrong. Leaving out the OR part, the structure is:
You can XXXX but not YYYY.

Normally this means: You can XXXX but you are forbidden to YYYY.

Their meaning is: You can XXXX without being obliged to YYYY.

If you know the answer you will read it as intended. I had never come across partial duplication before (or at least I only read the head-lines in the doc) and I had the same trouble as Mike9.

because I closed the TAR related to this issue I give you the way that Oracle Support wants that you understand this sentence:

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For example, you can duplicate a data tablespace

BUT NOT

the tablespace containing the index for the data,
or
Duplicate a tablespace that contains only one partition of a partitioned table

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which means that you can NOT duplicate a tablespace containing a partition of a table which has other partitions stored in other tablespaces which are not restored.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

. . . that would mean that you can't duplicate the TS containing the indexes :rolleyes: :confused:



NO NO NO . . . ", or duplicate" must be the start of a new example - there are TWO indicators: the comma and the repetition of the word duplicate.

I have a killer recipe for brownies if anyone wants it.

Designed & built a system once that acquired a cake as its symbol (long story). The on-line help for the utilities menu gave the recipe (more useful than most of the utilities).

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Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
I have a killer recipe for brownies if anyone wants it.

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Submit it as an article - stecal can tell you how.

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Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
I have a killer recipe for brownies if anyone wants it.

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Yeah, I'll take it.

Oh and by the way Mr.Hanky, although I don't agree with you politically, if your ever in the Keene/Brattleboro area I will pay for all your drinks (you drink for free in this town ;).

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Originally posted by gopi
Yeah, I'll take it.

Oh and by the way Mr.Hanky, although I don't agree with you politically, if your ever in the Keene/Brattleboro area I will pay for all your drinks (you drink for free in this town ;).

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Well, er thanks. I hate to look a gift horse in the mouth but may I ask why? You just wanna get me smashed and dump me in Boston Harbor?
I have a friends in M.I.T. are you nearby?

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Submit it as an article - stecal can tell you how.

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Yeah, if you are really lucky SSWUG.ORG might steal the recipe and pass it off as their own...

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Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
You just wanna get me smashed and dump me in Boston Harbor?

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nah... nothing like that.

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Originally posted by gopi
Oh and by the way Mr.Hanky, although I don't agree with you politically, if your ever in the Keene/Brattleboro area I will pay for all your drinks (you drink for free in this town ;).

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Be afraid, be very afraid.

Mr.H keep clear of Ohio too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4083871.stm

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Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
Well, er thanks. I hate to look a gift horse in the mouth but may I ask why?

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ur recent fighting of some of the arrogance... i'll leave it at that.

Maybe you two could take your mutual admoration society offline and exchange emails?