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Hello Forum,
In regard of the new oracle OCP requirement I would like to ask the following question:
http://www.oracle.com/education/cert...coursereq.html
Am I correct in my assumption that if you have passed at least one exam listed in the OCP 8i track you can continue and even pass the 1z0-030 to be both OCP 8i and 9i certified without the need to attend a classroom ILT ?
Thanks and regards,
ALT69
Good question.
If the price of exams with discount is $500 and books cost another $150 - $200, then the additional cost of a class will almost quadruple the cost of OCP.
That is really annoying.
Does this new requirement require OCA candidates to take classes as well? How would Oracle knows if I am taking ILT or not.
Another rip off from Oracle ...there isn't any self pace - self study anymore .
Sounds to me like Oracle doesn't want anymore OCPs!?!
This is quite a bombshell, especially since they've basically given no warning whatsoever.
I'm hoping I'm grandfathered - I recently passed 1z0-001, and had planned to continue with the 8i track then upgrade to 9i.
I wouldn't be interested in a 'hands on' course even if it were free. I do much better with the software on a test system and a few thousand pages of reading.
If anyone gets an authoritative answer to Alt69's question, I'm very interested too.
I think this "new" requirement is going to kill the OCP Program!! Oracle has enjoyed enormous success in the Program, but I don't believe that any other "major" software firm's certification program requires taking their own courses...at least not at this level.
I can somewhat understand Oracle's position on the course requirements for the OCM level, but not the OCP (or OCA).
Can you imagine being an experienced Oracle DBA (5+ solid years) and now deciding you want to become certified...now you need to waste 5 days on training which you likely don't need...plus $1,500 to $2,500 for a course...in addition to the regular exam prep materials that you would normally purchase.
This is obviously a move to corner the training market, and to bolster their saging Education business. Oracle complains about Microsoft's Anti-Trust practices...how about Oracle requiring you to take a course from them, and only them! O.K., you can also take it from an Oracle Authorized Education Partner...but Oracle gets a LARGE percentage of those registrations fees too!
SQL Server is starting to sound a bit better!!
Sorry for venting my frustration here...but I'm sure everyone here can understand my complete disappointment at the moment!
Hello Edward,
Microsoft still seems to have a more friendly approach to their certification candididates:
http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/m...amfeedback.asp
The Skills Being Measured chart lists each exam objective and the Microsoft Official Curriculum (MOC) courses that may be available for that objective. Is this tool effective in helping you assess where you may need formal training to supplement your experience?
Regards,
ALT69
I am new to Oracle and haven't take any exam yet.
Do I need to take course from Oracle University if I choose the 8i track instead of 9i track?
If yes, then I can avoid taking the course by completing the 8i track + 1 upgrade exam to 9i.
Personally, I think it is Oracle's attempt to bring back some credibility for the OCP Program. With so many paper OCPs out there, the designation of OCP has deteriorated. I believe they think that a company that is willing to send somebody to training will actually place that person in a role related to that training.
If Oracle is trying to provide credibility to the OCP designation, I think there's better ways to do it. Of course, it's hard to argue against Oracle just trying to find a new revenue stream for a faltering product line.
For a freelancer or contractor, the burden of proof is on Oracle that the $3000 cost and the wages lost from 5 days of class will provide a comparable return on investment.
I wouldn´t object if all OCP candidates passing required exams were required to attend a 2-3 day cost free seminar to gauge skills and measure the efficacy of the examinations.
how about practical exam instead of multiple-choice
but anyway asking people to attend ILT just to get certifi is a no no unless you can attend the 2 day net8/9 ILT, costs like 300 more or less
>>Hands-On Course Requirement
>>Oracle now requires (as of June 15, 2002) all newly
>>starting OCP credential candidates to complete one hands-
>>on course in preparation for their exams and future role
>>as an Oracle technologist (from http://www.oracle.com/education/cert...coursereq.html )
Does a newly OCP candidate must follow one cousre only or they have to follow all courses ??
only 1 course (classic class or online).Quote:
Originally posted by tecra
Does a newly OCP candidate must follow one cousre only or they have to follow all courses ??
If you have passed at least one exam before June 15, then just ignore this new requirement.Quote:
Originally posted by alt69
Am I correct in my assumption that if you have passed at least one exam listed in the OCP 8i track you can continue and even pass the 1z0-030 to be both OCP 8i and 9i certified without the need to attend a classroom ILT ?
IMPORTANT – PLEASE HELP –
Doesn't anyone know when this change was made public and/or first posted on Oracle website?
I completed the OCP 8 DBA in December 2000, and was studying for OCP DBA 9i. I had planned on taking the full track rather than the 2 upgrade tests.
When I browsed Oracle website about 6 weeks ago, near the time I was scheduling my first 9i test, I saw no mention of this new ‘hands-on’ class requirement.
So on May 25th I scheduled 1Z0-031 for the first available date within 100 miles on June 17th (TOMORROW).
Apparently, I’ll be taking my first 9i test one business day after this change is to take effect. Heck, if I had knew about this policy Friday, I would have simply taken 1Z0-007 on the internet.
It’s starting to appear that I will be throwing away $2000 and spending a week in Washington, DC (closest) taken some silly class to get OCP 9i.
Does anyone have any suggestions on who I should kill first; or any ideas regarding the following questions?
Q: Since I have already completed an OCP track, am I still subject to this policy change?
Q: Does it make any different that this policy change may not have even been posted when I scheduled 1Z0-031 last month?
Q: I saw reference about 1Z0-001 being usable for 1Z0-007. Since I passed 1Z0-001 in June 2000, am I considered starting this track before the June 15th effective date?
Q: Should I just scrap the idea of taking the full track and just take the 8i and 9i upgrade? Would that exempt me from the class?
Q: Or should I just give up on Oracle, sell my stock, and turn to the dark side and pursue MCDBA? Just kidding.
I guess I'll be calling Oracle tomorrow. I’ll keep you updated…
Chris
DW Consultant
OCP 8
This would be my suggestion...Quote:
Originally posted by elicoa
Q: Should I just scrap the idea of taking the full track and just take the 8i and 9i upgrade? Would that exempt me from the class?
I should have researched this more before posting. Initially I had only read the 'Certification Program Candidate Guide (June 2002)' PDF file and freaked. Anyway, after following the link in Tecra's post, I noticed 'Currently certified OCPs are not required to complete any additional hands-on courses, only to pass the upgrade exams.' So now I have two new questions.
Q: Since I completed OCP DBA 8 (12/2000), am I still considered 'currently certified' even with the 8 DBA track being retired."
Q: Does anyone know how much longer they'll be offering the 8->8i upgrade test?
Marist89, it appears I'll be following your advice and just doing the two 8->8i and 8i->9i upgrade tests. On the plus side it’s cheaper that the full 9i track, and certainly cheaper than taking some silly Oracle class. Anyway since I don't need the test that I'm scheduled to take in about 8 hours, the next battle with be with Thompson Prometric. I doubt I’ll be able to get a credit or refund on such short notice.
Thanks again,
Chris
Is this Bizzaro World?
I cannot believe this is happn. I just finished my last exam at uni today and was checking up on the forum before i started my assault on SQL/PL study.
What a joke.
NOT HAPPY JAN!!!!
i am not seeing any training centres located in Australia.....
STILL NOT HAPPY JAN.....
ok after looking at the oracle site it seems to me that only the 9i track requires this new requirement...are you able to carry on as usual on the 8i track even if you have not started any exams...or does 8i also fall under this NAZI policy?
Chris, what makes you think that Oracle classes are silly? Oracle University is the best place to learn Oracle, if you are aware of a better place/way, then I would be initerested to know.Quote:
Originally posted by elicoa
and certainly cheaper than taking some silly Oracle class.
First, I believe in the axiom that ‘Those who can do and those who can’t teach.’ I apologize if this ruffles some peoples’ feathers. Secondly, I apologize to anyone who was offended by my criticism of Oracle University. For those who desire or need a structured program and have thousands of dollars to spend, the classes are appropriate.
I do feel that Oracle did not appropriately warn people considering or preparing for OCP about this policy shift. Fortunately it appears I am exempt from the new ‘hands-on’ requirement, but many of my friends whom I have been encouraging to pursue OCP are not so fortunate.
Unlike some certification programs, OCP can be done outside of the classroom. The ability to download Oracle products and manuals coupled with the ability for that software to run on an average consumer’s personal computer makes OCP attractive.
In addition, not everyone benefits from classroom instruction equally. My personal experience is that with the appropriate tools; in this case the hardware, software, and manuals, I can learn more efficiently on my own then listen to a professor lecture a classroom of students. I will concede that true 1-on-1 training can be beneficial.
Anyway, in my opinion, being certified doesn’t get you the job, and it doesn’t ‘keep you the job.’ To get a job, you need to interview well, know the basic material, and be personable. To keep a job, you need to be motivated, effective, a contributor, and be willing to continue learning. Certification only gets you the interview.
Enough with my rambling; The U.S. has beaten Mexico in the elimination round, and I’m going to bed now.
Chris
OCP DBA 8
:-)Quote:
Originally posted by elicoa
First, I believe in the axiom that ‘Those who can do and those who can’t teach.’
The Oracle classes have the appropriate software, hardware and manuals. There is whom to ask if you do not know how to do something. Now how can that be worse than trying to do the same stuff alone?Quote:
My personal experience is that with the appropriate tools; in this case the hardware, software, and manuals, I can learn more efficiently on my own then listen to a professor lecture a classroom of students.
does this new criteria apply to the 8i track too?
Hey DarthDBA, where are you located in Oz?
As for the mo money for Oracle. It seems that yes, they are trying to make it a little harder for the paper OCP's whilst additionally trying to boast their own coffers in the process. It makes me wonder why the 9i Upgrade exam is included in this, this means that each time you upgrade you must go on an ILT course. Try getting 3K worth of training out of your Business in the current climate.
What are you talking about? What new criteria?
As far as Oracle University is concerned, the level of education there is higher than in many universities around the world. And I have visited quite some many.
Julian,
It's worse because people are forced to pay an extra $2000 for training they may not want or need.
Take an experienced Oracle DBA with 5+ years experience...is that DBA going to want to sit through one of Oracle University's 5 day core DBA courses. Sure, he or she might learn a new thing or two...but they easily could have learned the same after prepping for the exam and reading and practicing on their own.
Oracle even states that a certification candidate is allowed to complete all 4 exams in the 9i DBA Track first, bu then must meet the course requirement. Well, if someone has the ability to pass all 4 exams prior to taking the course...why must they pay $2000 to Oracle for a class that covers the topics they just passed? I'm surprised Orace didn't state that an alternative to the course, you could also write a check to Oracle University for $2000 to fulfill the requirement!! At least this method would save 5 days of a person's valuable time.
Also, how about the inconsideration of Oracle not providing any advanced warning?
Current OCP's are exempted.Quote:
Originally posted by grjohnson
It makes me wonder why the 9i Upgrade exam is included in this, this means that each time you upgrade you must go on an ILT course. Try getting 3K worth of training out of your Business in the current climate.
Exempted from what Jeff? Could you explain please?Quote:
Originally posted by marist89
Current OCP's are exempted.Quote:
Originally posted by grjohnson
It makes me wonder why the 9i Upgrade exam is included in this, this means that each time you upgrade you must go on an ILT course. Try getting 3K worth of training out of your Business in the current climate.
People that already hold the OCP designation are not required to take an ILT course in order to upgade to 9i.
Julian,
If you have not visited the link that started this thread, please do. This shold catch-you-up on the maddness that is going to cause many months of confusion on this board!!
http://www.oracle.com/education/cert...coursereq.html
Now how is someone forced to pay that money. I was thinking over your statement and could not comprehend it. Oracle University does not force anybody to attend the classes.Quote:
Originally posted by ehaskins
Julian,
It's worse because people are forced to pay an extra $2000 for training they may not want or need.
Well, some of my last courses where 9i New Features (5 days) and RAC (3 days). I learned a lot during that time and spent every single hour with interest towards the new stuff.Quote:
Take an experienced Oracle DBA with 5+ years experience...is that DBA going to want to sit through one of Oracle University's 5 day core DBA courses.
If the DBA in your example attends a class for beginners (A&A for example), then he has simply chosen the wrong ILT course.
Yeah, right :-)Quote:
Sure, he or she might learn a new thing or two...but they easily could have learned the same after prepping for the exam and reading and practicing on their own.
Wait a second! Are you saying that in order to attend the 9i core exams you must have completed the corresponding courses at OU?Quote:
Oracle even states that a certification candidate is allowed to complete all 4 exams in the 9i DBA Track first, bu then must meet the course requirement.
It is usually the firm you work for that pays the courses, not you!Quote:
Well, if someone has the ability to pass all 4 exams prior to taking the course...why must they pay $2000 to Oracle for a class that covers the topics they just passed
What warnings?Quote:
Also, how about the inconsideration of Oracle not providing any advanced warning?
OK, thanks. I read it. Well, there is some logic in that. Still, they require only 1 course, not all 4 of them.Quote:
Originally posted by ehaskins
Julian,
If you have not visited the link that started this thread, please do. This shold catch-you-up on the maddness that is going to cause many months of confusion on this board!!
http://www.oracle.com/education/cert...coursereq.html
Julian,
Yes, they need only take 1 course...but if they have already apssed all 4 exams prior to taking the course...why should they now need to take a course that covers the same topics.
You mentioned your RAC course...that's great, but that's not a course that qualifies for the new requirements...it must be one of the core-DBA courses or the 9i New Features. Someone going through the 9i Track from scrath is not going to take a 9i New Features course.
Julian,
It's been my expereince (as a provider of training), that most people going through the certification process are not being reimbursed by their company...they are paying out of their own pockets!
This is the official answer from Oracle (which I received ):
You only need to meet this requirement, if you have not passed at least one exam, regardless for the OCP 8i or 9i track. If you have not passed any OCP exam you will have to meet this requirement regardless if you are going for the OCP8i or 9i track.
Also if you have at least one OCP 8i exam now, you can become an OCP 8i later (after 15-06-2002) and subsequently go for the OCP 9i track WITHOUT the need to meet this new requirement.
(as stated by OCPPRO previously in his comment)
Regards,
ALT69
I was disappointed when Oracle released the OCM track which required two courses and a $2000 practical exam. That's a hell of a lot of money for someone to pay out and makes the certification more exclusive because of cost, not just difficulty.
Now they've perverted the OCP track. I think this will reduce the number of paper OCPs since individuals are less likely to pay this sort of cash on the off-chance they'll get a job at the end of it.
One ray of light is that you can complete a course online. The Oracle Online Learning Network is pretty good and relatively cheap ($349.00). Subscribing to this will allow you to do all the OCP courses and therefore certify for a fraction of the cost of a residential course. I suppose you could look at it as an online manual.
Good luck to you all.
I agree with Edward Haskins, it's just a matter of Oracle wants to get more..more..more and more money from their training business.
Can you imagine how much money orace will receive ??say there will be 10.000 new ocp candidates (all around the world) x us2.000. It would be US20.000.000,-
Another question, would it guarantee someone to be qualified OCP by following only one course ??? Why doesn't Oracle require a new OCP candidate to follow all courses to make a qualified OCP ??
Tim,
I'm fairly certain that the OLN is not part of the deal (or doesn't meet the requirements) to substitute for the ILT course that Oracle is referring to. The "Online" ILT that they mention is their Instructo-led Online Learning:
http://oracle.com/global/us/educatio...l?content.html
These course are $1500 a pop!
It makes me feel sick.
No doubt this was always a long term plan of Oracle, to setup the reputation of Oracle Certification and then start to bill for it.
At first i thought it was too good to be true that you could download the software for free and get certification for a reasonable price.
After what has been common practice how can you expect people to pay $2000 for a training course. Like 9/11 i am still unable to fathom this event.
Always 2 there are..
An Oracle and his DBA...
The Dark side clouds all....