Hi everyone,
I want to find out the national average salary if you have
x number of years experiences in Oracle database and OCP. What
website can I go to view it?
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Hi everyone,
I want to find out the national average salary if you have
x number of years experiences in Oracle database and OCP. What
website can I go to view it?
hi
a couple of years ago you could ask for 10 ~ 15% more but now days 0% because there are too many paper OCPs
Sweetie, can you explain more?
Sweetie, I think it depends. If you're looking for a job where the state
has many DBAs with OCP and experiences. You will not get the salary
what you're looking for. What do you all think?
me think sweetie is correct, ocp are like mcse, few months study and you are ocp
I personally know 4 of those hehe
From life experience, guys with 10 years DBA experience do feel bad when they see jr. dbas with OCP. Recent Graduate unemployment shouldn't stop high school kids from thinking about college. No knowledge is useless paper, certificate or whatever
The real focus should be on experienced DBA without OCP vs. experienced DBA with OCP. The OCP will add value to that person.
Also, the inexperienced DBA with OCP will be able to get his foot in the door much easier than the inexperienced DBA without OCP!!
That's the comparison that the focus should remain on.
dont want to be a **** but for example I see OCPs in this forum ask really basic questions
and I am not certified neither but I do spend my time trying out stuffs
sometimes I wonder, if OCP can boost you knowledge why there are OCPs ask really basic questions
I am talking about paper OCPs :o
[Edited by marist89 on 06-12-2002 at 09:04 AM]
Biggest advantage with OCP (as long as you didn't cheat), is the exposure to all aspects of the product. You may not fully understand a concept, but you are aware of its existence and how it might be used to provide a solution.
I recently ran into a data warehouse system designed by an experience DBA (3 years+) ... the DBA had no idea of bitmap indexes and how they can be used on columns in a where clause with low-cardinality.
There is such a thing as experience and then there is real experience. I have ran into guys with one year who would run circles around guys with 5 years that never did much more then change back up tapes.
Gee,
OCP 8i, 9i DBA
MCSE
I agreed with Gee. On top of that, if a person really gain his/her OCP without cheating, I think his/her Oracle knowledge worth some value. It is really going to back to a debate of hiring a Bachelor degree fresh college graduate and a high school dude with many years of working experience. Which one do you pick?
some dudes are pretty good academically but professionally are sort of disaster
know a few of these too
Pando:
I used to think the OCP exams were a waste of time. Like most experienced people my main problem was a fear of failing and what that said about me as a DBA. Eventually I took 2 weeks off work to revise and sit the Oracle7.3 OCP exams. That was a very interesting 2 weeks. I passed the exams but I realised I was very experienced in a limited range on skills. The OCP exams opened my eyes to the bigger picture.
Since then I've used the OCP exams as a way of keeping on top of the new features. I think the OCP syllabus is one of the best measures of how well you've understood what the new versions have to offer.
The reason for this brief life history? I think this is where the OCP has value. I think all DBAs, regardless of experience, would learn something by becoming certified. It's very easy for a DBA to stagnate. The OCP track adds some structure to your study of Oracle and stops you avoiding areas.
I don't think paper OCPs make the certification worth less. It's like any exam, it shows a minimum level of understanding. It would be foolish to consider any exam as a substitute for experience. All professional careers require a combination of academic qualifications and experience. The OCP is only one component of a complete DBA.
Remember, it's just my opinion.
Cheers
I agree with Tim I have been a DBA for 6 years and only recently decided to go for OCP status (a personal acheivement thing rather than money orientated) I found by studying there was large gaps in my knowledge so I found the process a very positive one.
I think many people approach the OCP with the wrong frame of mind - it is not a guarenteed doorway to riches it is simply confirmation (if you didn't cheat) that you understand the Oracle concepts.
Personally when I employ/interview DBA's I still test their ability (OCP or not!) and experience more definitly shines over a piece of paper.
Regards
Pando,Quote:
Originally posted by pando
dont want to be a **** but for example I see OCPs in this forum ask really basic questions
and I am not certified neither but I do spend my time trying out stuffs
sometimes I wonder, if OCP can boost you knowledge why there are OCPs ask really basic questions
I am talking about paper OCPs :o
We have a new guy in our IT deptt ,who's been asked to leave his parent company (an oracle partner) just because he didn't have certification. And this guy is good!! He's very good in networking.
The company said "sorry you don't have cert's".
He's working here now earning much lesser and in an IT deptt which is a typical 2nd level support deptt(replying on contracts,outsourcing).
So end result:
You have the risk of losing.....
1. A well paying job.
2. A proactive environment.
3. And as a result of the above your level of competency will start waning.
4. from a point where he is now, his marketibility has certainly taken a nose dive.
5. And ofcourse a stinging slap to your self confidence.
So any new kid who comes in your company with a certificate might be considered by some management who barely has taken a look at what the uncertified super guru.
It's scary but it can happen.
cheers!!!!
Tarry
[Edited by marist89 on 06-12-2002 at 09:06 AM]
I will add something: I have a DBA friend in Wien (not an Oracle friend, but since we are both Oracle guys, we talk Oracle at times too). He started doing professionally Oracle before me, he is very experienced, I have even sometimes asked him for help. He now wants to become 9i OCP. Yesterday, he sent me an email that he can only score 38% from the SQL exams....
:-) Jim, experience means: "He has done the same thing many times and he does not need to think when he has to do it next time". Within 6 years of "experience" you might have never heard of, for example, histograms or RAC. Now, be sure, that a 9i OCP knows these things.Quote:
Originally posted by jovery
Personally when I employ/interview DBA's I still test their ability (OCP or not!) and experience more definitly shines over a piece of paper.
Correct it must be an amalgam of both.Quote:
Originally posted by julian
:-) Jim, experience means: "He has done the same thing many times and he does not need to think when he has to do it next time". Within 6 years of "experience" you might have never heard of, for example, histograms or RAC. Now, be sure, that a 9i OCP knows these things.Quote:
Originally posted by jovery
Personally when I employ/interview DBA's I still test their ability (OCP or not!) and experience more definitly shines over a piece of paper.
How you approach to attain your ocp or whatever certification is the important question.and what you wanna do with it after you've achieved it.
In my opinion certification is important as it says something about you. Giving it a good name or a bad name is entirely the responsibility of the cert. holder.
Ohh reminded me something, do you know that some company then to hire Certed just because of their status? The company can actually tell their clients that they have qualified people to support the product. Value added product.
Exactly! Because the client knows nothing else.And he don't wanna know either.Quote:
Originally posted by E-Quality
Ohh reminded me something, do you know that some company then to hire Certed just because of their status? The company can actually tell their clients that they have qualified people to support the product. Value added product.
Don't Microsoft solution providers and partners require a certain number of certified staff? I seem to remember seeing this somewhere.
It wouldn't surprise me if Oracle start to do this.
Don't Microsoft solution providers and partners require a certain number of certified staff?
Yes, this is true. In fact 8 years ago I was one of only 7 people in Canada with a MCSE certification. The consultanting company that hired me quickly obtained the MS Solution Provider status after I was hired.
Funny thing is I was hired as a senior business analyst and didn't do any MS stuff, but by having a MCSE on staff was all they needed to get the Solution Provider status.
Gee,
OCP 8i, 9i DBA
MCSE
Oracle does that already probably ages agoQuote:
Originally posted by TimHall
Don't Microsoft solution providers and partners require a certain number of certified staff? I seem to remember seeing this somewhere.
It wouldn't surprise me if Oracle start to do this.
and peeps, I wont name here but just from this forum you can see how many who call themselves OCPs ask really basic questions, those that appears in exams and I wonder if these exams boost your knowledge what kind of knowledge are we talking about?
The problem with many certifications is you can pass them by reading the books, like I said before I know quite a few of these and sometimes I really wonder, so pass the exams and byebye your knowledge?
If you need certification to motivate yourself then fine but it's a problem of attitude. If you are auto-efficient you will try out new features yourself, test stuffs
[Edited by pando on 06-12-2002 at 04:31 PM]
I thought this was a forum for people who support certification and are looking for assistance in achieving this objective from those that have already gone through the process?
I think we all know people who are certified that we wouldn't let near our systems as well as those with years of experience that make you shake your head and wonder how they stay employed.
Certification is like graduating from a credited College/University computer program . You leave with a solid foundation, which if you choose to you can build upon.
Gee,
OCP 8i, 9i DBA
MCSE
Hi Trina
In this hard time it's difficult for even a small pay rise so just by holding a piece of cert wont make you earn more money, in fact I dont even think it works that way anymore. It's so easy pass OCP exams that everyone who spend a few months reading can pass it.
I work as developer for almost a year now and I passed OCP DBA track by reading certification books, I was surprised how easy it is! Before I started everyone told me a DBA is a senior job but hey after passing these exams I find it's a piece of cake compared with developers job.
I hold MCSD as well but it is worthless nowdays, everyone can code in VB :(((( wasted so much $$$$ in MCSD
Depending on your environment (like if you are a reseller of Oracle along with apps of some sort) and level of support you want, you may have requirements to have a specified number of OCP whatevers on hand. Silver support, as I recall, requires two OCPs on staff. But who really knows what Oracle requires? You can talk to two different sales reps, and more than likely you will, and get three different answers.
http://216.40.201.38/contrib/blackeye/lol.gifThat's a good one gee, you really crack me up...Quote:
Originally posted by gee
Certification is like graduating from a credited College/University computer program .
That's a good one gee, you really crack me up...
Oh Please ... if you are going to quote, don't cherry pick a sentence and slant some ones meaning.
Good Bye Forum ... too many attidutues here that don't reflect the real world.
If anyone wants a straight answer, my email is [email protected]
Gee,
OCP 8i, 9i DBA
MCSE
[Edited by gee on 06-12-2002 at 11:58 PM]
http://www.theunholytrinity.org/crac.../sad/bncry.gifQuote:
Originally posted by gee
Good Bye Forum
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."Quote:
Originally posted by gee
I thought this was a forum for people who support certification and are looking for assistance in achieving this objective from those that have already gone through the process?
-Bertrand Russell
I would like to offer you my OPS cake, to reduce a bit the false pinging, how about that piece of cake.Quote:
Originally posted by doraemona
I find it's a piece of cake compared with developers job.
I word of warning, an example: when you passed the P&T exam, you probably thought you know how to tune Oracle, right? The reallity is that in the P&T exam that test very little server tuning, they test the fundamentals, where from everything starts. And I am not kidding you.
As an ex-developer, a must warn you that the piece of cake is the PL/SQL/Forms code-writing, that compared to the daily burdens with the production databases. Interested in more details?
hi Julian
there is no OPS in OCP exam so I dont need it huh
I passed OCP exams, I found it a piece of cake so it is my opinion that DBA track is easy because when I took 6i developer track I found it harder
Now, you can call me paper OCP or whatever but I still find dba exams are much easier
IBM currently has certification requirements for partners.Quote:
Originally posted by TimHall
Don't Microsoft solution providers and partners require a certain number of certified staff? I seem to remember seeing this somewhere.
It wouldn't surprise me if Oracle start to do this.
pando:
I agree that OCP is not necessary but as I said before, I'd be surprised if you didn't learn quite a bit if you did it. There's always more to know.
So what if people with OCP ask stupid questions. Plenty of people cram for Degrees then forget everything. What's the difference. All this says to me is that these people have less experience of using Oracle. This is not a stick to beat OCP with.
doraemona:
Just because OPS is not in the OCP exams doesn't mean you can ignore it. Chasing bits of paper is not the goal. Anyone can pass an exam given the correct level of effort. The level of effort required is less for some than others. That doesn't make it worth any less.
Cheers
There is RAC (= OPS) in the 9i exams.Quote:
Originally posted by doraemona
there is no OPS in OCP exam so I dont need it huh
Then you should probably make a turn from a developer to DBA. As you think that DBA stuff is easier. But you probably mean that the exams are easier, not the real work, right?Quote:
I passed OCP exams, I found it a piece of cake so it is my opinion that DBA track is easy because when I took 6i developer track I found it harder
:-)Quote:
Now, you can call me paper OCP or whatever but I still find dba exams are much easier
Hi Tim
As I said, it is a problem of people´s attitudes, if they want to learn they dont necessary have to get certify in order to get motivated
Regarding basic questions, first you do is find out yourself in the docs, if you have problem with docs you go to Metalink if Metalink is still not clear we can certainly discuss in the forum. If you have the capacity of passing the exams you have the capacity to find out the answers for the basic questions. At the end of the day how many of us ask everything we know in a forum? Forum is good to learn problem solving since everyone post their specific situations but it is NOT a learning tool!
Well all said and done.
like the dude who said he didn't need to learn ops as it was not needed for the exam.
So what're u gonna do when you have to configure an ops ,datawarehousing, and much much more.
A nice vacancy asking for a dba (with or without certification) will probably be taken by someone who'll stop saying i didn't need that for the exam.
Everyone wants a good well paying job.. oh yes but on this one i'll agree with pando that a paper tiger all feathered up with certifications ..when asked a fundamental q and you'll say gee i don't know that wasn't asked in the exam.
I won't take names here but just someone yesterday a "senior member" asked about a very basic Q while if you had practiced enough you'd never ask a basic fundamental Q while otherwise engaging in more complex tasks.
that's what i guess pando means here, your level of competency(if you had any to begin with) will be going down the drain if you keep flashing your ocp and not learn the technology.
I've said it before and i'll say it again , a senior dba with years of experience without an ocp is definitely an asset and by certifying he'll only make it better for himself.
Certification is important and ok you don't need to exxagerate it by calling it a degree ,i'd say it's better than that.
Bottom line: learn the technology whichever way you can.
Cheers!!!!
Tarry
I'll agree 100% on that! And the the pleasure is incomparable when you slogged and solved it yourself, then you may(if you wish to) share it with the forum members.Quote:
Originally posted by pando
Regarding basic questions, first you do is find out yourself in the docs, if you have problem with docs you go to Metalink if Metalink is still not clear we can certainly discuss in the forum. If you have the capacity of passing the exams you have the capacity to find out the answers for the basic questions. At the end of the day how many of us ask everything we know in a forum? Forum is good to learn problem solving since everyone post their specific situations but it is NOT a learning tool!
Tarun
I've been an OCP for a few years now.
After the recent downturn in the New York area, people are only looking at resumes with a OCP logo on it.
Lesson 1. OCP works in a tight market like today's
I knew a guy who cleared OCP without looking at the ServerManager.
Lesson 2: Knowledge is irrevalant to clearing an OCP test
Taking OCP made me read all those books which I would not have
Lesson 3: Process of becoming an OCP is more useful than becoming one eventually.
Lesson 4: You dont want to go for OCP unless you have more money (if your company is not paying for it), are not confident of yourselves (some of the best DBA's are not OCP's)
Pando:
I agree about people not trying to help themselves. Alot of people seem reluctant to search through the documentation.
I try to double check my answers and provide documentation quotes if I have time. It seems amazing to me that people don't type a couple of words into the search at tahiti.oracle.com before coming to the forum. I need to try more than two phrases to find the answer.
It takes all sorts :)