How to break in the field.....

Hi, I am an McSE currently working desktop support in an M$ shop, and I would like to know how many OCP exams I would need to pass in order to leave the M$ borg and make that first move to an Oracle/Unix environment. Is passing the first two tests enough? I am not expecting to make $$$$$ in that first job-- I just want to crack into a department and learn DBA and/or developer stuff.

I need to get some good study guides and practice tests. Which ones are the best? I cannot afford to go to school right now, and I would prefer to study on my own. What is an STS?

Any recommendations/suggestions?

Thanks for your help!

My advice is:

1. Go to the local bookstore and look at "Oracle 8i The Complete Reference"

2. If you think you want to know more, buy the book, download Persona Oracle from the Oracle web site and start working on a dummy application, e.g. checkbook, fantasy football, stock market, ...

3. After you are comfortable with SQL and you are sure that you have interest, get the DBA Handbook and begin learning the administration side.

Good luck.

Hey Hind; I feel your pain brother. I finished my OCP last November and could not get arrested if I tried. I finally got in the Oracle dept. here at my current job three weeks ago. I tried everything in my job search including a bogus resume and had no luck. Finally after harrasing the Database group here I got in as a trainee using Oracle on HP/UX. It took a long time but I am really happy now to be finally working with it. My suggestion is to start to meet people in the Oracle dept, network yourself because beleive me, there are NO entry level DBA jobs out there. It is a non-existant position.
Good Luck
MH

Mr. Hanky:

You finished your OCP? How many exams did you pass? Sounds like you were looking for an Oracle job for six months.

Which is better: going through a nine month Oracle developer program that costs $7500 and get job placement (no certification), or studying on my own, passing the first couple of OCP tests, then looking for a job on my own? Of course I would rather save my money *and* get a job right away.....

My experience with M$ taught me that certification is a waste of money. If DBA jobs are scarce and everybody wants to be one, would it be wise to study to become a forms/reports developer? Or does this take me too far away from the goal of becoming a junior DBA? I like security, but I would not mind doing developer stuff.


Hey DKnight:

I have Oracle installed, and I am taking Official Oracle classes at the local community college. A COBOL programmer at work is trying to convince me that spending $$$$ for a developer program is worth it---as he says the school will place him in a job nine months later. Are entry level Oracle jobs that scarce that going to a technical brain dump school is the only way to get an Oracle job? Forget my current employer--the CIO is in love with Bill gates.

Thanks for the feedback.

If you are interested in development, learn Java. In fact, if you are interested in anything outside of the Microsoft universe, learn Java.

Well initially I thought (rather foolishly) that once I was certified I'd have np problem getting a job since Oracle DBA's were in such high demand. While I was going to school for the DBA cert reality came crashing in on me. I decided to finish the Oracle8 OCP/DBA course for a few reasons.
1) I wanted to get off the help desk (Yuk!!)
2) I already started down the path
3) Personal goal

In the end I am glad I got the Cert since that piece of paper got my foot in the door with the Database dept. at my company. Now my main goal is experience and that will come in time. Also, it was 5 exams for whomever asked.
MH

If you are a complete Oracle DBA beginner and If you *really* want to have experience and IF you can afford it, buy an Oracle License and configure your very own Oracle-backed Web Site. Or if you have a relative, volunteer to create a site for him/her, pay for the Oracle License yourself. An Oracle License is a small price to pay for the experience you will get. I have met several DBA's who have done this, that's how they got experience, it's amazing but true. It is very hard to find an Entry-Level DBA position with only an OCP certification under your belt. An OCP certification compliments practical on the job experience, it's not a replacement. IMO, and this is only my opinion, DON'T pay for any Oracle class. Save the money and buy an Oracle License instead (and *lots* of books too). hehe

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
Well initially I thought (rather foolishly) that once I was certified I'd have np problem getting a job since Oracle DBA's were in such high demand. While I was going to school for the DBA cert reality came crashing in on me. I decided to finish the Oracle8 OCP/DBA course for a few reasons.
1) I wanted to get off the help desk (Yuk!!)
2) I already started down the path
3) Personal goal

In the end I am glad I got the Cert since that piece of paper got my foot in the door with the Database dept. at my company. Now my main goal is experience and that will come in time. Also, it was 5 exams for whomever asked.
MH

---

Mr. Hanky,

Is certification better than attending classes? I see you did both. Which one is more important to a prospective employer: certification by studying on your own, or attending an expensive technical school that offers nine months of OCP training without certification???? My decision is based solely on getting that first job. I know that no one cares about certifications after you have been working six months on that first job.

I too, am eager to get away from M$ "tech support".

Thanks for the feedback!

Actually now that I think about it, it was not the cert. that got me in the door. It was my persistence, I offered to intern here while I was studying for the exams. I also would visit the Dept. occasionally, especially after I completed my certification. I left them a resume and eventually they called me in for an interview.

So I guess my point is that networking yourself and showing a real interest in it can be your biggest asset. I knew that I wanted to do this and that showed through when I would visit. My manager even told me that “My persistence is what got me in the door” So keep that in mind, just don’t be a complete P.I.A. (pain in the ass).

MH
Ps. I also have to wax my manager’s car for the next 16 months. (yes, that is a joke)

If you are a developer, and want to become a DBA:

1. Starting exploring the database you have access to in your current job. Try to query dynamic views, Data dictionary etc.,

2. Start reading oracle books regarding data base administration, for example, ORACLE CONCEPTS, DATA ADMIN GUIDE, TUNING etc., I have very high regard for Oracle books (not by oracle Press but by Oracle). Most of the books are online for example at http:\\oradoc.photo.net.

3. Get personal oracle and install on your computer. You can poke around PO8 files and learn a lot from it.

4. Take DBA cource in a community college. You need not go to oracle University and pay $2500 each course. A typical community college course lasts one quarter and costs $200.

5. Get access to some practice questions. They give you an idea of what questions to expect and what your thought process should be to be successful. In our class the instructor is freely distributing STS software in disks and also gave us about 400 useful dba scripts in a disk.

6. You are ready by now to take your first test SQL/PLSQL. This is a pretty easy test and you should be able to breeae through it.

7. Now buy a ORACLE OCP text book(s) start special preparation.

8. Your company might have CBT. Many companies take subscription to websites such as http://www.smartforce.com and provide free CBT training to consultants.

9. Do all online DBA courses, and you will be pretty pumped up by now to take the second test DATABASE ADMIN.

10. Then you can take BACKUP&REC.

11. NETWORK ADMIN & TUNING are probably tough cookies.

12. OCP at the least gives you confidence that it is no big deal and you can do the job. Think of all the dba's knitting sweaters in their free time.

13. You are a DBA.

[Edited by kris109 on 06-30-2001 at 10:30 AM]

Hi Kris109,

I took your kind advice and have regsitered for the Official Oracle classes (DBA and Backup and Recovery) at the local community college. I tool SQL for Oracle last semester. Just a reality check--I mean, if you want to work with Oracle, then it doesn't make sense to learn other languages such as Visual Basic, right? I would like to focus on the PL/SQL language only.....but I do wonder about "Marketability".

I have been running Oracle 8i personal edition for several months, am reviewing the review books by Prentice-Hall and Sybex, but now need to find good STS and practice questions. Are there any sources that you can recommend? This is the only obstacle that I need to overcome in order to prepare for the tests. CBT sounds good, but my company is locked into M$, which is one reason why I want to study for a different job....

Thanks

You made the right decision. With the market as it is, you can not go wrong with oracle, in particular oracle DBA. It is good to know as many languages and platforms as possible, but with OCP, for a job, you need not learn any other language.

You can buy STS from

http://www.selftestsoftware.com/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=600&

Your colleagues in the class might have access to question banks, you can ask them (please check as unauthorized copying of software may be illegal).

There are many internet sites where you can take practice questions on oracle 8i, for example:

http://skilldrill.brainbuzz.com/Test...Administration

You can download a sample DBA test from here:

http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/

This has 20 parctice questions for each test.

[Edited by kris109 on 07-03-2001 at 04:07 PM]

Hey Hind; You may want to start learning some Unix as well since most Oracle is running on Unix. If you don't know the OS that Oracle is on you will not be a very effective DBA.
MH

I had really hoped not to have to hop on the certification treadmill again, but if that is the only way to break into the database department. It seems like a waste, since no one will care about your cert six months after starting that first database job....

By the way, I already took a Unix college class last Fall. *nix is the future, especially Oracle on *nix!

Thanx for the links.

Now a couple links for you:

http://www.mattshouse.com/

http://www.oralinux.com/

http://www.linuxtoday.com

http://www.rootprompt.org

The only other option is to be a developer first. A lot of people feel that this is mandatory to be a good DBA, I guess I'll never be a "Good" DBA.

Personally I reccomend 2 or more years on the help desk, this does wonders for your troubleshooting skills not to mention common sense.
MH

Mr. Hanky,


Great! I will have completed those two years at the helpdesk (one year is desktop support) by Christmas of this year. I have a hard time understanding how an IT manager would count this as relevant work experience when trying to break into databases. Sure, it's another IT job in a different department, making a transition from networking to programming, and it helps that I am already in the field. What reasons would you give a hiring manager if you only had helpdesk experience and Oracle certification only?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
The only other option is to be a developer first. A lot of people feel that this is mandatory to be a good DBA, I guess I'll never be a "Good" DBA.

Personally I reccomend 2 or more years on the help desk, this does wonders for your troubleshooting skills not to mention common sense.
MH

---

I would say that all that experience stuff is a very relative thing. There are people who can and there are people who can't. In a previuos job as an Oracle developer, I had a colleague with more than 5 years of Oracle developing experience (PL/SQL and Forms). You cannot imagine how slowly he was doing things. Quality in Oracle programming and DBAing is very important but I prefer to see someone doing quality stuff quickly than someone doing quality stuff slowly.

I didn't give any real "reasons" per say. I was just persistant and I showed determination. I offered to intern, and I came in at the same pay rate while I get up to speed. This is all fine with me since it is what I wanted to do, experience will come in time as will all the fringe benefits that follow.

For me it took a lot of hard work, a lot of determination, and a little luck too.
MH

I have the opportunity to buy the entire Oracle 8i DBA cd set (CBT exam bundle with simulators). Since 9i is out, and the first 9i exam will probably by out by October, am I wasting my money on 8i materials? I do not want to be in the scenario where Oracle no longer offers the 8i DBA exams while I am still preparing to take them. Does anyone know when the 8i exams are scheduled to retire? Thanks.

hey! i juz cleared my last 8i OCP paper...yes certified!!
no way ORACLE gonna retire Oracle8i !!!! heehee...