Give Us Some Credit Please...
Experience or Certification? I am currently studying for my DBA certification. I have no experience except for what I have done on my PC at home with ORACLE8 Personal Edition. I have taken 3 of the 5 required exams for certification and passed. It's not easy.
When it comes to programming there is a right way of doing things and the "other way". The other way is whatever makes it work. I have done technical support for some different company's and alot of my co-worker's didn't care if what they fixed would be a problem in a week or so. They fixed it. I hated that. Because I would get a call in a week from the same person about how things aren't working again. It should have been done the right way the first time instead of half ass'd.
My point is this: You can play around with the ORACLE software and learn it/figure it out, apply for a job, bull **** your resume, whatever it takes to get a job. But when you are OCP, there are things that you study and learn for the test that you may not know without the test. Personally I feel that it is important to get the Certification if you want to be the best at your job. You need experience, you need the Certification and if you have little or no experience than at least you have the knowledge to prove yourself if given the chance. Knowledge is a powerful thing. I think that when you can say you have your DBA certification, it shows that you are a stronger person than the next guy without it. Why make this a career and not get the most satisfaction out of it? Isn't that what makes us who we are? The fact that we compete at everything in life to be a better person than the next.
I am riding on my Cert to get me a job in the market. I haven't been blessed with the opportunity to get on the job experience like most of you out there, so don't bring my hopes down by saying your nothing without experience. Someone will give me a chance and the knowledge I have will get me the experience I need to move on in this business. And after working for awhile the time will come for a raise. The person hired because of experience without the cert will not reap the benefits of having it.
It' not a mystery that the Oracle DBA certification is a tough one. And if you can pass all 5 test, that is a very big accomplishment and I give you much respect. I apologize if I strayed from the topic a little.
To wrap things up, I think to get a good job, you need to have both experience and the certification. But all I am trying to say is a Certification without experience is still a pretty good thing to have under your belt. It takes a lot of patience and understanding to get that. Just give them a little credit, the OCP'ers....Rather than sitting around saying, "I don't need to be certified, I know my ****, I am a good DBA". Start to think about those with experience and a Certification looking for a job. It may be yours they take!
Have a good one and good luck to all out there headed toward certification!
Re: Give Us Some Credit Please...
Quote:
Originally posted by SQLiz
I agree with you and I couldn't have said it better.
Most people not familiar with Oracle Certification think that it is just some paper after you go to some test meant for nerds. Some Oracle professionals do not know that in fact you need to pass 5 different exams in order to get the diploma. And only those who have passed them know how much effords that takes.
Experience or Certification? I am currently studying for my DBA certification. I have no experience except for what I have done on my PC at home with ORACLE8 Personal Edition. I have taken 3 of the 5 required exams for certification and passed. It's not easy.
When it comes to programming there is a right way of doing things and the "other way". The other way is whatever makes it work. I have done technical support for some different company's and alot of my co-worker's didn't care if what they fixed would be a problem in a week or so. They fixed it. I hated that. Because I would get a call in a week from the same person about how things aren't working again. It should have been done the right way the first time instead of half ass'd.
My point is this: You can play around with the ORACLE software and learn it/figure it out, apply for a job, bull **** your resume, whatever it takes to get a job. But when you are OCP, there are things that you study and learn for the test that you may not know without the test. Personally I feel that it is important to get the Certification if you want to be the best at your job. You need experience, you need the Certification and if you have little or no experience than at least you have the knowledge to prove yourself if given the chance. Knowledge is a powerful thing. I think that when you can say you have your DBA certification, it shows that you are a stronger person than the next guy without it. Why make this a career and not get the most satisfaction out of it? Isn't that what makes us who we are? The fact that we compete at everything in life to be a better person than the next.
I am riding on my Cert to get me a job in the market. I haven't been blessed with the opportunity to get on the job experience like most of you out there, so don't bring my hopes down by saying your nothing without experience. Someone will give me a chance and the knowledge I have will get me the experience I need to move on in this business. And after working for awhile the time will come for a raise. The person hired because of experience without the cert will not reap the benefits of having it.
It' not a mystery that the Oracle DBA certification is a tough one. And if you can pass all 5 test, that is a very big accomplishment and I give you much respect. I apologize if I strayed from the topic a little.
To wrap things up, I think to get a good job, you need to have both experience and the certification. But all I am trying to say is a Certification without experience is still a pretty good thing to have under your belt. It takes a lot of patience and understanding to get that. Just give them a little credit, the OCP'ers....Rather than sitting around saying, "I don't need to be certified, I know my ****, I am a good DBA". Start to think about those with experience and a Certification looking for a job. It may be yours they take!
Have a good one and good luck to all out there headed toward certification!
Re: Re: Give Us Some Credit Please...
Julian
I have been an Oracle DBA since 1985. I do a lot of DBA interviews for firms. Most of the candidates that are certified no nothing at all. I have never seen such a sad state of affairs within a single technology. All I can tell you is that whether you have your certification or not, once you have to face an interview, your certification becomes useless.
Quote:
Originally posted by julian
Quote:
Originally posted by SQLiz
I agree with you and I couldn't have said it better.
Most people not familiar with Oracle Certification think that it is just some paper after you go to some test meant for nerds. Some Oracle professionals do not know that in fact you need to pass 5 different exams in order to get the diploma. And only those who have passed them know how much effords that takes.
Experience or Certification? I am currently studying for my DBA certification. I have no experience except for what I have done on my PC at home with ORACLE8 Personal Edition. I have taken 3 of the 5 required exams for certification and passed. It's not easy.
When it comes to programming there is a right way of doing things and the "other way". The other way is whatever makes it work. I have done technical support for some different company's and alot of my co-worker's didn't care if what they fixed would be a problem in a week or so. They fixed it. I hated that. Because I would get a call in a week from the same person about how things aren't working again. It should have been done the right way the first time instead of half ass'd.
My point is this: You can play around with the ORACLE software and learn it/figure it out, apply for a job, bull **** your resume, whatever it takes to get a job. But when you are OCP, there are things that you study and learn for the test that you may not know without the test. Personally I feel that it is important to get the Certification if you want to be the best at your job. You need experience, you need the Certification and if you have little or no experience than at least you have the knowledge to prove yourself if given the chance. Knowledge is a powerful thing. I think that when you can say you have your DBA certification, it shows that you are a stronger person than the next guy without it. Why make this a career and not get the most satisfaction out of it? Isn't that what makes us who we are? The fact that we compete at everything in life to be a better person than the next.
I am riding on my Cert to get me a job in the market. I haven't been blessed with the opportunity to get on the job experience like most of you out there, so don't bring my hopes down by saying your nothing without experience. Someone will give me a chance and the knowledge I have will get me the experience I need to move on in this business. And after working for awhile the time will come for a raise. The person hired because of experience without the cert will not reap the benefits of having it.
It' not a mystery that the Oracle DBA certification is a tough one. And if you can pass all 5 test, that is a very big accomplishment and I give you much respect. I apologize if I strayed from the topic a little.
To wrap things up, I think to get a good job, you need to have both experience and the certification. But all I am trying to say is a Certification without experience is still a pretty good thing to have under your belt. It takes a lot of patience and understanding to get that. Just give them a little credit, the OCP'ers....Rather than sitting around saying, "I don't need to be certified, I know my ****, I am a good DBA". Start to think about those with experience and a Certification looking for a job. It may be yours they take!
Have a good one and good luck to all out there headed toward certification!
Re: Re: Re: Give Us Some Credit Please...
Quote:
Originally posted by oracle9guy
Most of the candidates that are certified no nothing at all.
Yep... You should put then in the adds something like
'Non-OCP candidates prefered for this position'. As they
seem to know more about Oracle than the OCPs :-)
Quote:
Originally posted by julian
Quote:
Originally posted by SQLiz
[/B]
[/B]
Re: Re: Re: Give Us Some Credit Please...
[QUOTE]Originally posted by oracle9guy
[B]
I have been an Oracle DBA since 1985. I do a lot of DBA interviews for firms. Most of the candidates that are certified no nothing at all. I have never seen such a sad state of affairs within a single technology. All I can tell you is that whether you have your certification or not, once you have to face an interview, your certification becomes useless.[QUOTE][B]
Just a couple of questions.
a). Just as a matter of interest, how do you keep up with the Oracle technology. I mean I know certification isn't the ONLY way, but you've been in the Oracle industry for a long time, so I thought it might be interesting to see what your preferred way is.
b). I plan to acquire Oracle 9i certification after I complete my 8i certification. I intend to get some hands on, and also attend a 9i upgrade course prior to completing the upgrade exam. I just feel, that to understand or at least to be able to identify 9i's new abilities, what better way to learn then study for an exam, you gain additional information and the added bonus of being certified.
c). "once you have to face an interview, your certification becomes useless" , I'm not sure what this comment means. Do you mean that...
a). people forget things they have learnt when placed under the pressure of an interview.
b). people hate 'apparent' smart arse OCP dba's
c). certification counts for nothing
d). it doesn't mater what you know, it's how you come across in the interview.
If it is any of these it's a shame. I'm not saying Certification is the be all and end all, it's about confidence building, and that's good right, who would you rather employ.
a). A green IT employee with no experience.
b). A green IT OCP DBA with no experience.
I'm not saying A probably won't be a better DBA than B, but at least B is keen, shown some initiative and has displayed commitment to something they feel as important.
[Edited by grjohnson on 07-12-2001 at 02:31 PM]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Give Us Some Credit Please...
Quote:
Originally posted by grjohnson
If it is any of these it's a shame. I'm not saying Certification is the be all and end all, it's about confidence building, and that's good right, who would you rather employ.
a). A green IT employee with no experience.
b). A green IT OCP DBA with no experience.
[Edited by grjohnson on 07-12-2001 at 02:31 PM]
Personally, I would hire neither A nor B. A Jr. DBA is not an entry level job. After you have 4+ years experience in IT as a programmer, sys admin, PC Support, etc. come talk to me about a Jr. DBA position. Sure, if you have your OCP, I might have a look after 3+ years, but then only if the match is PERFECT...
