Actually, it was a coincidenceQuote:
Originally posted by Tarry
Anyways funny that you said that after my post, which tried to introduce Beginners/Newcomers to T Kyte , J Lewis etc. I thought that they were the ones who needed to know about these 'talented professional' authors.(some of them atleast ;))
i was replying to davey23uk's post,but u posted before i could complete:D
That's close. A few random and highly generalised (therefore false) thoughts:Quote:
Originally posted by simply_dba
Ok. whenever you know something but you have doubt, you consult the oracle reference(at least I do it)
and
whenver you don't know something, u read books to gain knowledge on that topic.So you are a beginner ,atleast, on that topic.
- most ref manuals are not something you would curl up with in an armchair - "concepts" perhaps an exception?
I'm convinced that the physical and emotional environment has an impact on learning.
- manuals tell you how to do something, often they don't say why or when you should do it (Oracle better than most here).
- manuals tend to be a list of solutions with associated problems, I usually have to start from the problem.
- the better books are lists of problems with associated solutions.
Right but ref manuals are something you would surely want beside you when you are solving a problem you not so confident about.Quote:
most ref manuals are not something you would curl up with in an armchair - "concepts" perhaps an exception?
I'm convinced that the physical and emotional environment has an impact on learning.
Books, on the other hand, are useful when you are "learning" a new problem/concept/...you are beginning
Goes with above.You will be looking manauls when you are in doubt for a particular problem.so when in not important here. And why ?..that surely you can reconstruct using your experiance.Quote:
- manuals tell you how to do something, often they don't say why or when you should do it (Oracle better than most here).
isn't that why manuals are better than books for the experianced, who don't need to read all the ABC's again and again??Quote:
- manuals tend to be a list of solutions with associated problems, I usually have to start from the problem.
How many books do you have to combine to produce the exhaustive lists as the manuals??Quote:
- the better books are lists of problems with associated solutions.
Quote:
isn't that why manuals are better than books for the experianced, who don't need to read all the ABC's again and again??
generally, Reference manuals tend to re-enforce something already learned, and that which was learned are the abc's. You learn the abc's then, use reference manuals to re-enforce them.
Quote:
I'm convinced that the physical and emotional environment has an impact on learning.
Absolutely.
Ok Let me tell you why I'd buy a book from an author like Tom kyte.
--It is not a manual.
--It puts me to work form day one, i.e install,run,tkprof,test,etc
--It makes me think further than a manual
--It helps me think "realistically" about the "REAL WORLD" scenarios.
--It helps me not to delve too much into the balderdash on distraction of manuals that can make "everything" sound important and not help you get on with your professional life with the "core real world situations".
A reference manual is great for reference. Tom Kyte is a perfect example of someone who has almost fully optimized his professional career and used almost all his experience in replying to all kinds of questions that came his way(because if they didn't happen he wouldn't have answers ready when the users would come back to ask him about the complexity of their situation which they could have elaborated in the first instance when asking the question).
So people use software and use their real world experience to be able to promote some "effective" learning to the community. Ok, so they write a book and make some money. I'll give my money(read: buy a book) to someone who has such credentials.
Grammer mistake edited :|
The good books I do read again and again - just been through Jonathan Lewis' for the second time.Quote:
Originally posted by simply_dba
isn't that why manuals are better than books for the experianced, who don't need to read all the ABC's again and again??
Yes, the acid test of a good book.Quote:
Originally posted by Tarry
-- It makes me think further than a manual
Can we talk about PORN now, this technical crap gives me a headache.
Talk about stuff you can "read" over and over again.
Hell Gandolf wore out the rewind button on his DVD remote!
We were discussing something you can do again and again in an armchair - what's wrong Mr.H? your imagination gone on the blink? :D
O.K.Quote:
Originally posted by Tarry
Ok Let me tell you why I'd buy a book from an authur like Tom kyte.
--It is not a manual.
--It puts me to work form day one, i.e install,run,tkprof,test,etc
--It makes me think further than a manual
--It helps me think "realistically" about the "REAL WORLD" scenarios.
--It helps me not to delve too much into the balderdash on distraction of manuals that can make "everything" sound important and not help you get on with your professional life with the "core real world situations".
A reference manual is great for reference. Tom Kyte is a perfect example of someone who has almost fully optimized his professional career and used almost all his experience in replying to all kinds of questions that came his way(because if they didn't happen he wouldn't have answers ready when the users would come back to ask him about the complexity of their situation which they could have elaborated in the first instance when asking the question).
So people use software and use their real world experience to be able to promote some "effective" learning to the community. Ok, so they write a book and make some money. I'll give my money(read: buy a book) to someone who has such credentials.
that's what I want impress you about.I go further to say that having gained a fair amount of experiance,you tend to "REFER" rather than to "LEARN" more often.(I am not saying that you gain experiance and you stop learning.Please note the word often.)and you have already said that manuals are far better than books in that respectQuote:
A reference manual is great for reference