They mightn't ask for it, so you sell it to them in the interview.
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They mightn't ask for it, so you sell it to them in the interview.
I have been using Oracle since 1991, but I got certified only in 2000. Initially I did not care about OCP, because I did not have time to study. Without certificate I mananged Oracle where ever I worked.
When I got time in 2000, I started to prepare for the OCP. I completed it within 3 months time. Basically I wanted to know what are the new things in Oracle 8 and 8i and how they can be used in my day-to-day work. Other than that OCP did not help me much, but it enriched my knowledge.
Hi, 19th may 2001 12:19 hrs Chennai
OCP has really helped me lot to know on new things which i would not have noticed during my DBA works.Still there are few things which i accept even OCP curriculum missed out but the content is good.
OCP i feel is a part of exp and it will really adds color or flavor to our exp.
Being OCP will help you to stay competitive in any country.Suppose if we go to US to work all the companies encourage its employees to complete OCP if you are worlikg as a Developer or DBA in oracle.So i dont need to take a chance who(country) needs OCP or who doesnt need that.
In India its still very useful.
I dont want to take a chance for a post where equally exp people meet and the company weighs the another has additional merit due to certification .
But finally what counts more is
At the end of the day the solution has to be delivered and the customer or end user in the organization in which we work the things has to go smooth and he should feel happy.
Cheers
Padmam
hi
regarding one of those mindsets against OCP certification , I would like to ask a simple question.
do u want to compare the services of a doctor who is holding a degree in medicene with a person
who claims that he has equivalent experience in the same field. certification gives a person the identity
rather than self proclaiming that he has got experience.the same is applicable to all fields.when u go through
the syllabus for the OCP exams , it shows the real stuff.unless one is really commited and clear in all
the concepts he cannot pass just by luck.this is my view
regards
When NT first arrived on the scene, I was in the middle of a couple of projects using VAX RDB and POWERHOUSE. I decided at that time to get involved with this new technology and acquire my MCSE along with the SQL Server exams.
I found the certification process gave me a solid footing to further my career using these new technologies. I also found those people who also moved onto NT without getting certificed lacked an understanding in many areas of NT that myself and others who were certified took for granted (this was after many years).
After years of working with SQL Server I find myself in the need to move onto Oracle (the city I live in is all Oracle). I plan on getting certified to give myself a solid foundation to stand on and during my studies I will be converting a MS SQL Server dataware to Oracle rewritting all the stored procedures, triggers, etc.
Hi , 23rd May 2001 10:58 hrs chennai
Then you should read this link to get to know "How to Succeed in OCP" Details in point blank what you have to do be an OCP'ian
http://www.dbasupport.com/forums/sho...threadid=10596
Cheers
Padmam
Ah, Utopia.Quote:
Originally posted by gee
the city I live in is all Oracle
lol the utopia :D
btw star if you wanna compare doctors why you dont say why medicine graduated students needs to do practice works nefore they become a real doctor? (and yes those graduates holds certifications)
OCP is a great thing to have, and as mentioned above, OCP + Experience is better than experience only.
There are LOTS of DBA's out there with years of experience, but that only know how to run OEM and don't have a clue how to do anything at the command line or have any idea how the database actually works, and have only "heard about" the new features of the latest release. I'm working with one now! The problem with years of experience, particularly at the same company, is that the DBA can get into a rut of doing the same old thing, day in and day out, and never learns anything. That's when the time is ripe for a newly certified OCP DBA with a couple of good hard years of experience to come in and take over.
As usual, one must get into the interview process to demonstrate knowledge, and having OCP will get you in the door. OCP is great for entry level jobs as well.
Its on ones mindset to be OCP or not.Iam a certified DBA and planning to upgrade my certification.
Being an OCP is a plus point.It boosts your confidence and motivates to learn things.I agree experience counts over the certification.But take an example of two persons having same experience and among them only one is certified.Who will have more room in the market?
Unless you catch up with the new features you stand no where. OCP upgradation helps you to achieve this.
You really come to know how well you understand the new concepts and whats the basic differences between the versions.
Well its on ones personal satisfaction.One might learn new things with out preparing for OCP .But being an OCP allways have an added advantage.
If you are self motivated and determined.. go ahead and get certified.You will feel much better of yourself.
HI,
I have seen lots of 'experienced gurus' but not in real sense.
Being DBA for 10 or 15 years doesn't make anybody EXPERIENCED, but KNOWLEDGE and real ability to attack the issues make anybody experience. Certification helps to improve the knowledge, concepts and helps to try new stuffs.
Thanks
Niyasi
Hi
It is ones own interest I personally feel we are not the people who need to argue weather OCP is right or not.
If you get thru OCP you have better prospects in the IT Industr offcourse experience with OCP is a big plus why Iam telling is a manager looks at a resume before he forwards it to his team to Interview and most of the time people do look at certification.For a beginner it is a Big plus to get a certification and start on a Job.Experience is something which we will not get as soon as we get out of college to Join a team of DBA'S, so OCP is surely a stepping stone for a fresher.
Regards
If you have some spare time (it seems you are busy with gaining experience :-) for the OCP exams might have been hard for you) have a look at:Quote:
Originally posted by marist89
I always hire experience over certification. If I am looking at two candidates that have similar experience, I might give the nod to the person that has the OCP, but not always. There are lots of people out there that have gotten their OCP and still don't know squat about Oracle.
If I am looking to fill an entry level slot, I might look at somebody that has no experience but has shown the initiative to go out and get the OCP.
http://www.certmag.com/issues/feb01/dept_insidecert.cfm
and read carefully what researched has been done on Oracle Certified Proffesionals. And then, if you feel like it, "show the door" to OCPs.
Julian,Quote:
Originally posted by julian
If you have some spare time (it seems you are busy with gaining experience :-) for the OCP exams might have been hard for you) have a look at:
http://www.certmag.com/issues/feb01/dept_insidecert.cfm
and read carefully what researched has been done on Oracle Certified Proffesionals. And then, if you feel like it, "show the door" to OCPs.
What makes you think if one debate on a particular topic that he is against that ? Jeff expressed what he feels about OCP. Infact He is OCP. What you know about Jeff. Have a look at his postings... you posted the first posting at dbasupport.com and criticising the memebrs... Everyone is free to express their opinions here but one shouldn't criticise the other member while expressing their opinions.
-No Offence-
Sigh. Yes, the exams are too hard, that's why I'm afaid of certification and any OCP out there.Quote:
Originally posted by julian
If you have some spare time (it seems you are busy with gaining experience :-) for the OCP exams might have been hard for you) have a look at:
http://www.certmag.com/issues/feb01/dept_insidecert.cfm
and read carefully what researched has been done on Oracle Certified Proffesionals. And then, if you feel like it, "show the door" to OCPs.
Yes, this article is interesting. Too bad it doesn't support your argument. Of course, it was completely objective being written by:
Mike Serpe is senior manager of the Oracle Certified Professional progam, responsible for the global management of Oracle’s certification programs. Mike can be reached at [email protected].
What is Ocp matters ?
Ocp is good for people hunting for jobs or for experienced people to get high salary.
I met 10 peoples with ocp certified but all without jobs.i met many peoples with 2 to 3 years experience in dba getting well paid.
luck depends on freshers like nikki(in forums) which she got job after passing Ocp. Dba is nothing but full of experiences and skill
whatever certification you get is good at paper but never close to real experienced Dba's
Oracle corporations are not making the ocp certifications as real as possible to
get ocp tests as real based scenario questions only which experienced dba's can answer,
now every body is certified like Microsoft tests.
It's really pity,that oracle not making any standards
in certification.
In this cometitive world,it will be good for companies
and oracle corp. to get good validity of certification process.
Any lay man get ocp certified by just reading ILT books.
so i suggest to get real life practice as Dba,make quires and answers for all problem in dba workshop
then take Ocp certification.
Indian
I feel that sometimes a experienced DBA also wont be able clear OCP. So instead of critisiing OCP why not try giving the exams maybe int he process you will learn something more which u didn't know earlier. I see no bad acpects of giving the exams.
About getting jobs, it's all on luck.
SO guys instead biting each others back lets go back to work. As it is DBA's have no time to waste in this kind of discusions.
Dear Sudip, 6th June 2001 19:15 hrs chennai
I have to really appreciate you words let all get down to work rather than Justify "No OCP" "EXP BEST" kind of sorts.
All are experienced only the level of measurement varies.The day one when you step in to DBA job the exp starts counting.
I also dont believe in the years count on exp.One may gain it in 3 years what a person would have done it in 5 years.Its his way of interest and participation in to forums like ours,attending Oracle technical conferences ,technical paper presentations,more over on how much he reads lot of technical books on oracle etc...May be a certification is also one of the step.
With all this one can be more sharper and prospective in competitive world.
I dont believe in criticizing either OCP standards.Lets take it head on and tell me whether that is of no use or not.
Believe it in my city where i can see the pulse of the whole world IT trend which i am keenly watching to say more precisely breathing it.Lot of US returns are now eager to take DBA courses.Even many small institutes are now running several batches parllely.There was a time(6 months back) when many people feared to even enter DBA side have started taking DBA courses.
where are we going ? are we all going to cope with this competition ? i know for sure by this time next year there will be 1000's of fresh local dba's who will be surplus and start for other countries.Till date i myself recruit DBA's for Singapore unable to get good ones for my company.Even 6 months exp DBA is rare to find.But that wont last forever.
Sure even OCP certification alone wont help them more tricky and shrewd will also take up Sun Solaris certification and Linux etc....
Till this date the demand and supply for DBA there was big gap.Even experienced people were paid high money.The lucky few well exp over years of time at top can now survive with same sal ? what about one or 3 years exp DBA's ? the fresher never says he is a fresher he says he is 5 years on DBA or 3 years of sort.Moreover he shows all kinds of certificates etc...
Not only exp counts its all best survival tactics one employs and moves ahead in his chosen field.Do you have one ? if not plan it today.
Cheers
padmam
Dba certfication whats big deal????
imagine scoring perfect 90% in a backup and recovery exam and in a production database trying to recover it only 90% of the times..................i bet my ass on this one guys.............experience counts..........if you guys are real serious about oracle rather then certification just go to oracle technet site download oracle for linux start practcing some case studies from rama velpuri's book...............this certainly wont help you to pass certification but yep it will help you to save ur job ,ur ultimate goal .........i beleive.join forums like
http://www.dbasupport.com where real dbas post their problem try to solve them............its a tremendous experience in itself.i have repeatedly said that my skills were honed on this forum.i was able to get and also save my job bcoz of this forum...........................................get real folks ocp dsent tell you how to apply a latest patch nor does it check your knowledge on this one.neither will it tell you how to keep your cool and concentrate on how to bring back your db when it is down and calm down irritating users..........
regards
hrishy
Hi Hrishy, 7th June 2001 19:34 hrs chennai
I respect your opinion.
My kind request is lets take things like this ...
what is the Use of attending technical seminars like iDevelop2000 conducted by oracle all over the world.?
What is the Use of reading any Technical papers from oracle Magazine. ?
What is the use of Presenting technical papers on this forum ?
What is the Use of Taking OCP ?
It all grooms our experience.Its all part and parcel of experience.
In this same thread there was a comments from a well exp DBA over more than 10 years commenting He has took OCP and told his benefits on knowledge front
===============
Tamilselvan:
I have been using Oracle since 1991, but I got certified only in 2000. Initially I did not care about OCP, because I did not have time to study. Without certificate I mananged Oracle where ever I worked.
When I got time in 2000, I started to prepare for the OCP. I completed it within 3 months time. Basically I wanted to know what are the new things in Oracle 8 and 8i and how they can be used in my day-to-day work. Other than that OCP did not help me much, but it enriched my knowledge.
===============
and simillarly criticism from other Quarters lets move ahead rather than to say for and against we have to really respect lot of members fellings.
I respect very much you feelings except the hard words from your side.
Knowledge breeds confidence and confidence breeds success.
Let get ahead as Big Team to share our Knowledge.
Cheers
padmam
[Edited by padmam on 06-07-2001 at 10:18 AM]
Since I signed up with dbasupport last year, I have read numerous arguements on whether one should go for OCP or not. the views are almost equally divided. It does not make any sense just arguing. You can argue it forever.
I think it all depends on your personal situations. For those who have not found a dba job,it might be a better starting point in getting a OCP. For those who have been dba for some years, they might not be in a rush to get a OCP, or they might not even have to. To those who have been a dba and who want to fullfill personal satisfaction, might want to take one.
I myself have been dba for some years now, but I would admit that I do not know everything about oracle. To me, I think getting actual experience is more important than getting OCP. If I have some real work to do, I would learn by doing it, say master some oracle products, such as WebDB,apps,LDAP. When I feel I really have nothing interesting to learn, then I would prepare for OCP. I spent one month on OCP one and passed it last June, and spent two weeks on OCP two and passed it this past May. I don't know when I am going to do my next one.
Some thougts after taking two exams:
1, I do learn something new from preparing OCP;
2, By just getting OCP without actual experience, you will not be able to handle the actual dba job;
3, Some actual dba tasks are not designable in OCP questions,maybe some gurus can improve the OCP questions in the future;
All in all, we should not just compare OCP to experience. OCP and experience should go hand in hand and compliement to each other, not one against another.
Hi Dragon, 8th June 2001 10:58 hrs chennai
I agree centpercent with your views.May be i had put the same in different flavor.
Cheers
Padmam
[Edited by padmam on 06-08-2001 at 01:27 AM]
with 6.5 year's exp in system and database admin including
hp-ux,dg-ux,informix ,sql server and oracle and
certifications like mcse,mcdba,mcsd,scsa,scna
what i can say is that there's no subsitute for concrete experience.
certification only makes it easier to convince others of your worth ,though only initially.
I agree with Dragon and padmam.
Certification is just a plus but not subsitute to EXPERIENCE.
And for STAR, why doctor's were not allowed to do operations as soon as they get degrees. Are you ready to go to a doctor for an operation with no experience. Same thing here, no one will be ready to take you and give his Database by seeing your CERTIFICATION and no experience.
In this form one asked, can you answer every thing if you are a DBA.
I have a question for Them: What for do you Certify, get experience to PERFORM what you need to at WORK!! Can they perform at WORK with NO experience just by taking certification.
Stop wasting time at arguing. Let us spend time in learning new things and go on...
I know in ORACLE corp. itself more than 50% are not certified.
In fact many in this form are Engineers and their minds are bent to learn anything to learn new.
That keeps any one going
Cheers.........
Hello everybody,
This is the second time I am replying to this post allthough Iam not an OCP I dont think it is fair on our part to discourage people who are trying to learn oracle and try to gain knowledge thru some training program or go thru self study and get thru certiifcation It is surely going to be helpful for all of them dont discourage them guys maybe they might not be so experienced right now one day they might be much better then one of us and help us in turn.We guys have had the experience on working on oracle DBA if they are doing certification they also have some aim of achieving something in their career.I feel it is not worth wasting time on debating on a issue which will never end but I allways feel we should allways help and encourage people who are intrested in learning the subject either thru training or thru certification or self study.
I dont think I would be intersted in participating in such a discussion any more in future
Just sheer waste of time (Last and final reply from me)
No offence meant People
Regards
well,the situations vary.if u r a dba in small company and
with very little tasks,and just repeat your daily works for
more than two years,do u think that two years experence
is valuable?i know a guy who just learning for ocp and no
experence at all but can answer a lots of questions on the
net!
so as i said,a good interview should focus on the knowledge
at all and go hell of experence and ocp!
Quote:
Originally posted by Kishore
Stop wasting time at arguing. Let us spend time in learning new things and go on...
You still have the option of not participating...Quote:
Originally posted by santoshym
I dont think I would be intersted in participating in such a discussion any more in future
Hi All,
I totally agree with Santosh..
I have total 9 years in Oracle and out of 9 I have 5-6 years in DBA. Recenntly I passed OCp 8i. It helped me to learn more new features. And also I agree in post they mentioned if a DBA is working in one company and he/she has routine job, then one can not learn more but counting experiance. So OCP will give some chance to learn more and also it is persson to person. In my opinion experiance will help in job performance and OCP will help in learning more new features. Once we learn more new features then one can perform in their job very well and cope up with any problems. So experiance and OCP will help in job.
Hi , i cleared the pepers and got promotion ...
more ask what, i got a better job also .what say ?
Hi, 27th June 2001 14:08 hrs chennai
I am happy to share today i have cleared my Sun certified System Administrator for Solaris 7 part 2 Exam today.
With that i have become a certified Sun System Administrator.
Even though i have not honestly worked much on DBA role on sun solaris o/s surely my recent knowledge on it will help me to move in to this area.I have practiced much on for the exam.
I have not come to convey here the certification justification against Experience (exp is always exp nothing to substitute it)but certification really help to build up or shape up for beginers with job break through , for some promotion for some sal hike for some nothing (except pride) for me confidence to move ahead and to take Solaris Network Administration shortly.
I am happy to say that this site(DBAsupport.com) has really helped to shape up myself clear OCP DBA a few months back.The knowledge sharing and reading many articles helped me much.
I also missed very much this forum in the past few weeks due to this certifications .
If anyone interested to write exams on Solaris i can contribute with all the information i have with me which can Gurantee you 100% success.Mail me at [email protected] or else i will send the same informations to this site.
Cheers
Padmam
OCP cert. compliments, it does not replace practical, on the job experience. But I understand the sentiments of aspiring Oracle DBA's coming from a different field without experience (Developers, MSCEs, Unix Sys Admins, TacoBell employees, Nuclear Physicists, Janitors, you name it. hehe). They view OCP cert. as their ticket to DBA-land. Get the Cert. and try looking for an entry level position. goodluck!
I agree with the_Slob, but would like to add that there is no easy way to break into the field working with Oracle. Suppose you aspire to become an NT administrator. Many people see the A+ exam as a way to break into networking. While doing desktop support, you work on the McSE. Compared to Microsoft networking, I doubt that an employer would look at an applicant who wants to break into the database field with only one OCP test passed.
Learning TCP/IP is a lot easier than learning how to program PL/SQL. Programming is harder than networking, which is why there are more McSEs and CCNAs than OCPs and Microsoft Sql server DBAs. The learning curve for Oracle is therefore a lot steeper. Having passed several OCP tests at least reassures an employer that you will quickly learn how to apply the OCP knowledge to do your job in the real world. If I already had at least two years of practical experience, I would not bother with certification!
By the way, any links to good STS practice tests would be appreciated.
Just ask around, and you will find that many McSE certified people are fleeing from the Microsoft borg....
>>Would you like fries with that McSE?<<
Hi,
I have been a system administrator and Oracle DBA for 5 years working in a bank and a software company. I was not OCP certified till now and I am in the verge of completing one.
I personally feel that experience is what the employers prefer first and OCP confirms that the experience is not just only in paper but a fact and an added advantage.
Thanks
murali,
Were you a network admin *before* jumping into Oracle? How were you able to do this? Did you have to become a developer first?
Hindenburg
I've been a DBA for amost 3 years and I'm almost finished with my OCP exams. In my case, prior to becoming a DBA I had extensive C/C++/Perl programming experience, I had experience with other dbms (MS SQL Server, MySQL, MS ACCESS and Foxpro/Foxbase/Dbase III+), and I was currently employed as a Unix SysAdmin at that time. So I had a pretty strong IT background. When my company went looking for a Junior Oracle DBA, I volunteered and applied for the Job. My boss was aware of my previous experience and was pretty much impress by my performance so I was hired as Junior Oracle DBA.
Hey TheSlob,
It would be interesting to learn why you wanted to move away from being a Unix admin to an Oracle DBA. I know that PL/SQL is easier to work with than PERL or C.....
I guess you have to spend time as a developer before becoming a DBA. I heard that an IT department only has one or two DBA positions vs. dozens of developer positions. Is this why entry level DBA jobs do not exist?
[Edited by Hindenburg on 07-05-2001 at 05:34 PM]
Quote:
Originally posted by Hindenburg
> Hey TheSlob,
> It would be interesting to learn why you wanted to move
> away from being a Unix admin to an Oracle DBA. I know
> that PL/SQL is easier to work with than PERL or C.....
I started programming in the early 80s (Fortran, PL/1, Assembler). I was an Oracle developer before a became an Oracle DBA. I think that PL/SQL is sort of easy to make some simple PL/SQL functions and procedures but only after I read carefully 'Advanced PL/SQL Programming' by Scott Urman I dared to claim that I know PL/SQL. I still learn all the time PL/SQL although I scored almost 100% on the OCP exam. I takes a lot of expereience and learning before one can claim "PL/SQL is easy".
> I guess you have to spend some time as a developer
> before becoming a (good) DBA.
This should be right path.
> I heard that an IT department only has one or two DBA
> positions vs. dozens of developer positions. Is this why
> entry level DBA jobs do not exist?
Well, they do exits but of course more developers are needed than DBAs. But recently DBAs (me in particular) do a lot of other stuff: PL/SQL, Reports, Forms...
I am very interested in tuning Oracle. I would be glad to exchange some thoughts on performance tuning with some of you guys.
[Edited by Hindenburg on 07-05-2001 at 05:34 PM]
Ok I admit, I wanted to be an Oracle DBA coz of the money (arent' we all? hehe). With regards to the number of DBA's in an IT dept. It depends on the size of your company. The company i work for is a medium sized company. We have 11 Unix Sysadmins, 4 developers and 4 DBAs, and others (IT managers, cisco network engrs.,etc) god knows how many they are..hehe. PL/SQL is easy compared to C or C++ but i admit i still dont consider myself a PL/SQL guru. I believe that My overall IT experience, especially with programming and other DBMS was helpful in my selection. Plus ofcourse you have to kiss your boss' ass once in a while..hehhe...Try one of this lines.."Wowyou're losing weight, you look great!" or...."I followed what you told me and everything worked great!! Thank god you're here..."..heheh i'm sure you'll come up with your own lines..GoodLuck!
This is a very old and very tiresome debate. The "gurus" are going to say that OCP is worthless. The "OCPers" are going to say it's not. As a DBA who is currently working through the OCP 1st because I want to and 2nd because I have to (employer is requiring it), my experience is this:
There is so little formal training available for a "reasonable" price that the only testing mechanism is the OCP exam. If you are wanting to become a DBA and want even the slightest possibility even being let near a production system, you need to have some idea of what you are doing. That affirmation comes from testing, ie - OCP exam. You can also get that affirmation by trial and error (which I'm betting is how most "gurus" got where they are) but really, how many sane employers are going to let one of these people around their systems? Not mine!
OCP by itself, IS worthless. I know first hand that what I knew in the exam room and what I knew in the server room were COMPLETELY different! WAKE UP, OCPers! You aren't in Oracle class anymore! You MUST have the applicable experience to go along with this "vast" knowledge one expect to achieve by studying so diligently for an OCP exam. I learned this the hard way.
But for ANYONE calling or considering themselves a "guru" in Oracle stating that OCP is not worth the paper it's printed on is about as ignorant as expecting the rediculously high salaries once you complete the OCP. For most of us, the OCP IS our education. Once the "gurus" get that through their thick skulls, and the OCPers get the clue that it's not as easy as passing 5 stupid exams, this debate will FINALLY be over. Here's hoping that day comes soon.
Kevin