Fascist
:D
Fascist
:D
!KEEP VOTING PEOPLE!
A brief intro for newcomers
Who are these people in the polls
Team A
1.
Tom Kyte
2.Jonathan Lewis
3. Cary Millsap
Team B
1.Donald Burleson and Mike Ault
Well I voted on None of these.
Why??
Because I feel that these books are good for the beginners in Oracle or those DBAs who are switching to Oracle from other.
But for those people who are at the intermediate to expert level,the best book, according to me, is the Oracle Reference Manual and of course there are good forums like this one.
Tell us honestly, Mr Hanky what did you do with those.I have a very awkward feeling with that statement:D :DQuote:
I thought I had some books by Mike Ault but I do not see any on my shelf.
so you are saying JL's book which is very technical and goes to a very deep level is only worth for beginners?
Cary Millsap's book is definitely not for beginners. Quite hard to read btw
Yes, but very much worth the effort.Quote:
Originally posted by pando
Cary Millsap's book is definitely not for beginners. Quite hard to read btw
P.S. you DON'T need any calculus to understand it ;)
ahh...
Ok. whenever you know something but you have doubt, you consult the oracle reference(at least I do it)
and
whenver you don't know something, u read books to gain knowledge on that topic.So you are a beginner ,atleast, on that topic.
Hmm simply_dba,
I think that is not really a correct statement. The fact that only 24 people have chosen for TK/JL/CM book is because they are reasonably sound oracle professionals, had it been a beginners book then this poll would have seen a lot of users choosing for Burleson books as well.
A reference book will not teach you anything either.It just helps you remember what you forgot or can't remember at that point in time.
But anyways thanks for voting.
Anyways funny that you said that after my post, which tried to introduce Beginners/Newcomers to T Kyte , J Lewis etc. I thought that they were the ones who needed to know about these 'talented professional' authors.(some of them atleast ;))
But you are misinterpreting my post.Who says a oracle expert don't have to learn a new thing?Quote:
Originally posted by Tarry
Hmm simply_dba,
I think that is not really a correct statement. The fact that only 24 people have chosen for TK/JL/CM book is because they are reasonably sound oracle professionals, had it been a beginners book then this poll would have seen a lot of users choosing for Burleson books as well.
A reference book will not teach you anything either.It just helps you remember what you forgot or can't remember at that point in time.
But anyways thanks for voting.
Tom himself says that every day he learns something new in oracle.
So an oracle expert can also be a beginner in some sense:cool:
Actually, it was a coincidenceQuote:
Originally posted by Tarry
Anyways funny that you said that after my post, which tried to introduce Beginners/Newcomers to T Kyte , J Lewis etc. I thought that they were the ones who needed to know about these 'talented professional' authors.(some of them atleast ;))
i was replying to davey23uk's post,but u posted before i could complete:D
That's close. A few random and highly generalised (therefore false) thoughts:Quote:
Originally posted by simply_dba
Ok. whenever you know something but you have doubt, you consult the oracle reference(at least I do it)
and
whenver you don't know something, u read books to gain knowledge on that topic.So you are a beginner ,atleast, on that topic.
- most ref manuals are not something you would curl up with in an armchair - "concepts" perhaps an exception?
I'm convinced that the physical and emotional environment has an impact on learning.
- manuals tell you how to do something, often they don't say why or when you should do it (Oracle better than most here).
- manuals tend to be a list of solutions with associated problems, I usually have to start from the problem.
- the better books are lists of problems with associated solutions.
Right but ref manuals are something you would surely want beside you when you are solving a problem you not so confident about.Quote:
most ref manuals are not something you would curl up with in an armchair - "concepts" perhaps an exception?
I'm convinced that the physical and emotional environment has an impact on learning.
Books, on the other hand, are useful when you are "learning" a new problem/concept/...you are beginning
Goes with above.You will be looking manauls when you are in doubt for a particular problem.so when in not important here. And why ?..that surely you can reconstruct using your experiance.Quote:
- manuals tell you how to do something, often they don't say why or when you should do it (Oracle better than most here).
isn't that why manuals are better than books for the experianced, who don't need to read all the ABC's again and again??Quote:
- manuals tend to be a list of solutions with associated problems, I usually have to start from the problem.
How many books do you have to combine to produce the exhaustive lists as the manuals??Quote:
- the better books are lists of problems with associated solutions.
Quote:
isn't that why manuals are better than books for the experianced, who don't need to read all the ABC's again and again??
generally, Reference manuals tend to re-enforce something already learned, and that which was learned are the abc's. You learn the abc's then, use reference manuals to re-enforce them.
Quote:
I'm convinced that the physical and emotional environment has an impact on learning.
Absolutely.
Ok Let me tell you why I'd buy a book from an author like Tom kyte.
--It is not a manual.
--It puts me to work form day one, i.e install,run,tkprof,test,etc
--It makes me think further than a manual
--It helps me think "realistically" about the "REAL WORLD" scenarios.
--It helps me not to delve too much into the balderdash on distraction of manuals that can make "everything" sound important and not help you get on with your professional life with the "core real world situations".
A reference manual is great for reference. Tom Kyte is a perfect example of someone who has almost fully optimized his professional career and used almost all his experience in replying to all kinds of questions that came his way(because if they didn't happen he wouldn't have answers ready when the users would come back to ask him about the complexity of their situation which they could have elaborated in the first instance when asking the question).
So people use software and use their real world experience to be able to promote some "effective" learning to the community. Ok, so they write a book and make some money. I'll give my money(read: buy a book) to someone who has such credentials.
Grammer mistake edited :|
The good books I do read again and again - just been through Jonathan Lewis' for the second time.Quote:
Originally posted by simply_dba
isn't that why manuals are better than books for the experianced, who don't need to read all the ABC's again and again??
Yes, the acid test of a good book.Quote:
Originally posted by Tarry
-- It makes me think further than a manual
Can we talk about PORN now, this technical crap gives me a headache.
Talk about stuff you can "read" over and over again.
Hell Gandolf wore out the rewind button on his DVD remote!
We were discussing something you can do again and again in an armchair - what's wrong Mr.H? your imagination gone on the blink? :D
O.K.Quote:
Originally posted by Tarry
Ok Let me tell you why I'd buy a book from an authur like Tom kyte.
--It is not a manual.
--It puts me to work form day one, i.e install,run,tkprof,test,etc
--It makes me think further than a manual
--It helps me think "realistically" about the "REAL WORLD" scenarios.
--It helps me not to delve too much into the balderdash on distraction of manuals that can make "everything" sound important and not help you get on with your professional life with the "core real world situations".
A reference manual is great for reference. Tom Kyte is a perfect example of someone who has almost fully optimized his professional career and used almost all his experience in replying to all kinds of questions that came his way(because if they didn't happen he wouldn't have answers ready when the users would come back to ask him about the complexity of their situation which they could have elaborated in the first instance when asking the question).
So people use software and use their real world experience to be able to promote some "effective" learning to the community. Ok, so they write a book and make some money. I'll give my money(read: buy a book) to someone who has such credentials.
that's what I want impress you about.I go further to say that having gained a fair amount of experiance,you tend to "REFER" rather than to "LEARN" more often.(I am not saying that you gain experiance and you stop learning.Please note the word often.)and you have already said that manuals are far better than books in that respectQuote:
A reference manual is great for reference
But only at your leisure time. isn't it??Quote:
Originally posted by DaPi
The good books I do read again and again - just been through Jonathan Lewis' for the second time.
How many times have you consulted JL books when you wanted a quick "REFERENCE" as comapred to the oracle manuals??
Well you are misinterpreting Mr Hanky's "Read" over oursQuote:
Originally posted by DaPi
We were discussing something you can do again and again in an armchair - what's wrong Mr.H? your imagination gone on the blink? :D
:D :D
C'mon guys, it's Friday
That's why a keep a hardcopy of the Concept's Guide in "the smallest room".Quote:
Originally posted by DaPi
Most ref manuals are not something you would curl up with in an armchair - "concepts" perhaps an exception?
I'm convinced that the physical and emotional environment has an impact on learning.
No, seriously I do.
Manuals are good at telling you the facts, but not necessarily the implications.
Needless to say I have a prime example for you, which is that parallel table scans are direct path. As far as the manual goes that's pretty much all you need to know so it doesn't get much more attention than bare metnions here and there, but the implications of it are disproportionate to the size of those manual mentions. That's what a book is for, IMHO.
Which county state penitentiary are we talking about here, Dave? :DQuote:
Originally posted by slimdave
That's why a keep a hardcopy of the Concept's Guide in "the smallest room".
No, seriously I do.
it's the simple formula once againQuote:
Originally posted by slimdave
Manuals are good at telling you the facts, but not necessarily the implications.
Needless to say I have a prime example for you, which is that parallel table scans are direct path. As far as the manual goes that's pretty much all you need to know so it doesn't get much more attention than bare metnions here and there, but the implications of it are disproportionate to the size of those manual mentions. That's what a book is for, IMHO.
you know but don't remember=> refer=>reconstruct
you don't know=>learn
You've stated that fact before, so no point reiterating.
We were talking about why we buy books and when we do, which one draws our attention.
Is this a teaser to the upcoming (much anticipated) novella buy out very own slimdave?Quote:
Originally posted by slimdave
Manuals are good at telling you the facts, but not necessarily the implications.
Needless to say I have a prime example for you, which is that parallel table scans are direct path. As far as the manual goes that's pretty much all you need to know so it doesn't get much more attention than bare metnions here and there, but the implications of it are disproportionate to the size of those manual mentions. That's what a book is for, IMHO.
Printed on soft paper?Quote:
Originally posted by slimdave
That's why a keep a hardcopy of the Concept's Guide in "the smallest room".
You're thinking of "the big house", not "the smallest room", silly.Quote:
Originally posted by Tarry
Which county state penitentiary are we talking about here, Dave? :D
What an excellent idea.Quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
Is this a teaser to the upcoming (much anticipated) novella buy out very own slimdave?
No, in fact it's distressingly stiff and non-absorbent (careful!), but the pages are held in with that curly plastic binding stuff so they detach very easily in case of an emergency.Quote:
Originally posted by DaPi
Printed on soft paper?
$70 for a plastic binding. :rolleyes:
Actually I've got a new plan. I was thinking of an "open source" book-type thing. Or a series thereof. So enhancements and comments from readers can be "fed back" into the softcopy with credit given for advancing the work. I'm looking at different licensing schemes at the moment.Quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
Is this a teaser to the upcoming (much anticipated) novella buy out very own slimdave?
Anyone think they might be interested?
will this be a rampant book dave?
Only in the dictionary sense.Quote:
Originally posted by davey23uk
will this be a rampant book dave?
Are you saying it would be rampantly funny?????? :D :D :DQuote:
Quote:The "unchecked" bit might explain a lot.Quote:
ram·pant Audio pronunciation of "rampant" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rmpnt)
adj.
1. Extending unchecked;
I suggest...
Oracle DataHorseHousing
by David Aldridge
ISBN : ilie-u-buy
Forward by : Donald burleson(World reknown Horserer)
I think some cans of Horse milk coming free with that will push it's popularity.:DQuote:
Originally posted by Tarry
I suggest...
Oracle DataHorseHousing
by David Aldridge
ISBN : ilie-u-buy
Forward by : Donald burleson(World reknown Horserer)