Printable View
Well Tim, neither will I if i engage in a similar talk on the interview table.Quote:
Originally posted by TimHall
I can't learn anything new or I'll never get a job :)
PS. Do I get a prize for starting this weeks biggest thread that's completely irrelevant?? [/B]
I do feel bad for you so let's get the background music as well...;)
http://www.plauder-smilies.de/nopity.gif
Aaahhh!
The worlds smallest violin playing just for me!
Pardon my ignorance Jeff, but for all I've heard this holds mainly for the States :-) Probably if we take into account all foreigners working there, you might be right. I would be interested in finding some statistics about that. From all the Oracle co-workers I have had, less than 20% have had a college degree.Quote:
I wouldn't say that's true in the US.
My point is that it is very important what you write on this one page. Some skills are superset of other skills. If you include for example advanced PL/SQL programming, I will know that you can use and that you have used SQL Navigater, or Devleloper 2000, SQL*Plus or SQL*Loader. If you include that you have administered OPS/RAC, I will know that you can tune Oracle and that you know enough Unix. I could email you the English version of my CV so you can see what I have in mind.Quote:
I'm not sure its practical Julian, May be true if the position is sales manager/grocery store manager or similar. I wish, I have one page of resume but, who cares ?
Employers do not fancy long CVs. You run into the risk of including some meaningless/funny information. You should include only relevant things. If you apply for a senior Oracle DBA position, who cares that you know little Java or Fortran or that you have driver's license?
My understanding is that a manager in the US will spend 15 - 30 seconds looking at resumes in the first round.
One page tailored to the position seems like a good strategy.
In Germany, the longer the better. They want to see detail about irrelevant tasks done 10 years ago. A huge waste of everyones time in my opinion.
Julian: I know what you are talking about, I would be glad If I get to the Hiring tech manger with that resume, I still need a detailed resume(a seperate one) to satisfy the HR requirements who is sorting out resumes. HR is not gonna present all the resumes received...
dknight: You are Right! its hard to get your resume directly to techincal manager bypassing HR :)
75% of the times only Tech Manager knows the value of single page resume.
There is an article in latest issue of 'Software Development' magazine on career build in the down economy. They do say the same: One needs to have single page resume with a seperate detailed resume which focus on acheivements and tech expertise, preferably in Flow chart form than in words.
My current resume is about 10 pages long. The first page is a summary of my skills. Most employers will probably find this enough. The next 9 pages are details of my previous customers along with references for each company.
I think Julian is correct in some ways. I too have found I get a better response by using the 1 page summary, but the extra crap helps once they've picked you out of the pile. People always want to know a bit about what you did for each company. Obviously, the most important stuff must go at the start before they get bored. I've often thought about adding something stupid to the end to see if they get that far :)
As for one skill implying others, this is not the case when dealing with agencies. As a DBA/Developer I frequently get asked if I know SQL. Most agency staff are sales people, not technical staff, so it's just a bunch of acronyms to them.
Cheers
Tim,
It is with deep regret that I am forced to renounce your current hero status due to over qualification. I hereby reinstate Jeff as my dbasupport.com hero. Congratulations Jeff!!
MH
Gee, thanks (I think).
What a thread...
Little bit about "overqualified":
It's a very interesting disscution.
I was in this situation and below some conclusions.
Situation with "overqualifing" more interesting when you
alredy work in some company.
If you "overqualified", as a rule, main "danger" for you will be not
from your boss. Because your boss usually can manipulate your
reports, but bosses of another departments usually can't do that.
they will feel --> if you "overqualified" then u probably
(or potentialy) can see their "mistakes" and can have your own mean
about some decitions. Then u can discass about this with ur boss or ...
And doesn't matter u do it or not, potentialy u can do, ur
qualification enough for it.
U POTENTIONALY CAN BE PLAYER ON ANOTHER FIELD.
THIS IS, IN MY MIND, ONE OF THE MAIN PROBREM WITH "OVERQUALIFIED".
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
-- Douglas Noel Adams (b. 1952), British author, "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"
Jeff, you need to open a can of whoop-ass on Mr.Hanky:Quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
Tim,
It is with deep regret that I am forced to renounce your current hero status due to over qualification. I hereby reinstate Jeff as my dbasupport.com hero. Congratulations Jeff!!
MH
1) He indirectly calls you less qualified than me, and I'm ****e.
2) I've heard through the grapevine that he's been telling people you're soft as ****e and he can have you in a fight anyday!
3) He told me your mother's so fat that when she jumps in the air she gets stuck!
Fighting talk if every I heard it!
Cheers
PS. For those of you not in the know, in the UK the word "****e" is a northern variation of the word "****".
I guess you caould say I'm talking ****e!.
Get it? That's a joke son, Mr.Hanky, talking ****e.
Don't want it to go over your overqualified head now.
MH
:)
Depends. The more real problems might come (and go) when you apply for a job. Many companies (bosses) need a guy who can do the job, not someone who is keen on learning and interested in new things. Such a worker might soon get bored with his/her (routine) job and switch companies. The better choice (for some companies) is someone on intermediate level who is OK but nothing special, who will be satisfied with everything or almost all around him/her and will not be mister-know-all. But if you are overqualified, you can still keep the low profile, right :-)Quote:
Originally posted by Shestakov
Situation with "overqualifing" more interesting when you
alredy work in some company.
I had word yesterday from another agent. She claims to have spoken to 2 other people who were told they were overqualified for that position. The plot thickens :)
Perhaps the job don't exist - maybe they are just practising their interviewing techniques :)Quote:
Originally posted by TimHall
I had word yesterday from another agent. She claims to have spoken to 2 other people who were told they were overqualified for that position. The plot thickens :)
Or maybe demoralizing the senior dba's forcing them to hang out with the juniors and learn to talk/act dumb in the interviews.
There are many kinds of companies in the world. When I am looking for a job I send out as many resume's as posible and hope I get a few interviews. Other than the fact that their aren't many Sr. DBA positions, the more chances you have of getting a good job the more likely that you will find one. I don't believe you can be overqualified. However, I think some people do get intimidated by someone who is bright. Just my opinion. Besides, I would prefer to not get a job because I am too bright rather than not get a job by being inept.
Knowledge is power.
Most people. That is why often low profile is the better choice.Quote:
Originally posted by gandolf989
I think some people do get intimidated by someone who is bright.
Could it be that they were just looking for someone who was willing to work for nothing ? So instead of saying they just couldn't pay the salary you were expecting, they just said you were over qualified. Just a thought.
ThE ThReAd ThAt WoUlDn"T DiE!!
MH
And I created it! I'm so proud :)
Do I get a certificate?
Tim, a certificate is in the mail.. and to make you feel more at home, it's been triplicated.
Tim, just curious to know what's the pay range ($/hour) for a 3-month contract for a DBA with seasonal level as you have?
A. <50
B. (50, 75]
C. (75, 100]
D. (100, 125]
E. >125
Thx!
Is this a consultant fee or should we devide the month salary by 22*7.5?Quote:
Originally posted by xjin
Tim, just curious to know what's the pay range ($/hour) for a 3-month contract for a DBA with seasonal level as you have?
A. <50
B. (50, 75]
C. (75, 100]
D. (100, 125]
E. >125
Thx!
I'm not happy talking about money online. What I will say is that rates have plumeted over the last six months. There are far to many Oracle DBAs in the UK and not enough DBA positions at the moment. The laws of supply and demand dictate that DBAs are pretty cheap at the moment. Alot of development positions pay more than DBA positions now.
For the last few years the UK has made it easy to get a visa if a person has IT skills. This has recently been reversed as one third of the freelance IT people in the UK are currently out of work. That says something about the state of the industry at the moment.
All I can say is, "Make hay while the sun shines" :)
I will add to Tim's message that it is not unusual for a DBA to switch jobs with a lower salary, no kidding. Regardeless of things like experience, knowledge, education and OCPness.
You would be happy to maintain your current position/job at this point of time. We have Senior DBA that willing to take 60% of his original pay from other company and work with us in minor database admin, and Web Server configuration in development area. He himself said, he is overpaid during the good times. What i noticed, development has a little more stable position than database right now, but many developers have been forced to acquire many skills as compare to before where they have to do many things by themselves such as web server config, build, coding in various languages, testing, and some database knowledge in various platforms. 2 years ago, they would only need to know coding in 1 programming language and leave the other parts to other teams.