ashley75 the problem is this thing has probably been asked over 50 times in this forum, yesterday was asked for example

why you dont try to search before ask?

not gonna answer samething everyday or two sigh

it takes 5 minutes to look Oracle doco, it even provides examples.

most probably you get the answer in the doc before asking here and wait for a reply

I dont understand what's so hard to learn from docu, when I started I did not ask everything (and I started this 2 years ago not like I am very experienced or anything)

it's not being new or experienced, it's an attitude problem, when you dont know anything you just ask, dont even try to do some research yourself mind you but that's not the way I learnt and not Jeff neither I assume, were there internet forums back in 1994?