Certified DBA and So What?

[vimalp]

Well said niata

[marist89]

Originally posted by OraMan

Have you taken any of the test, you are criticizing about your self.

How long you are hiring, or interviewing oracle dba?

Without reading (as you say $99 book), you will not going to know what is new…………
By the way Math 101, book also cost around $99 (today's market), when I took it years ago. Do you think that is worthless?

You may have some problem with Oracle Corp, but do not take it out of some one who trying to learns and make them better oracle professionals.

By the way, I am an Oracle certified dba, for last 3 years. I got my ocp after two years of experience. I believe I learn lots of additional issues while studying for ocp test.

Thanks for your inside, I may need to use, how to answer your kind of mindset when I go for my next interview.

Thanks,

Whether I am or am not certified is irrelevent, that's not the point. The point I was trying to make is that the underlying reason a person gets their OCP says alot about their character and their motivation. Take yourself for example. You obviously studied for your OCP to learn about other features of Oracle. I think that is great, you should be very proud of yourself. I don't have anything against Oracle Corp., I think the OCP program is great for the purpose it was intended for.

The thing that peeves me about ANY certification program is they eventually get tainted by people with no experience taking the tests and passing themselves off as experts. It happened with the CNE (Novell) program years ago and it is happening today with MCSE, MCSD, CCIE, OCP and every other certification track out there.

I believe the ideal starting point for a DBA is in the development realm. Start to get to know SQL, PL/SQL, Stored Procedures/Packages, relational design, indexing theory, etc. As you learn more about how databases operate in general, you will start to learn more about Oracle. When you've got 2 years of programming experience and are genuinely interested in DBA work, you're ready to be a Jr. DBA. I know the salaries attract alot of people to want to be a DBA. Believe me, it's not for everybody; 2:00 AM pages, 36 hour recoveries, working every other weekend during downtime.

[marist89]

This is what I am talking about:
http://www.dbasupport.com/forums/sho...?threadid=8268

[pando]

Vimalp I started as junior developer for 2 months then switched to DBA position because i told the boss I was interested in system administration when he was looking for one

I have barely 9 months experience as DBA and I have not studied for any OCP exams yet although I do plan to take them, the reason that I havent taken any yet is because I am weak with PL/SQL (that´s why i esaped from my developer position ). I do read quite a few technical papers. When I have nothing to do I do some STS tests since I have quite a few (about 3000 questions ), yesterday I took 60 questions on Oracle 8 Admin STS and I scored 54 without reading a book. The point OraMan states is that no one who reads the book could score 100%, 100% is a tricky word I dont think I can score 100% in a test even I study very hard

Certifications are good but look at Microsoft certifications, they used to be popular and they were a good way to get you a job but look how they stand these days now

So i still agree 100% with Mariest

[smcdmc]

I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with everyones comments regarding becoming OCP. But here is my perspective.

I was a DBA for over 6 years using Oracle Rdb. Realizing my skill set is no longer sought by employers (Oracle Rdb is basically dead), I have decided to learn Oracle 8/8i and become certified. Why? Because everytime I apply for a DBA job, I am asked if I know Oracle. The answer is yes. When I am asked how long have I used Oracle, the answer is 6 months. Therefore, my resume is rejected because to the recruiter/hiring manager/whomever, "I don't know Oracle". However, if I were an OCP, then I would be able to demonstrate that I do have a knowledge of Oracle and possibly get that job. Would I be a guru? Of course not. Am I cheating? Possibly. Am I trying to make myself more marketable. Absolutely. I sure beats being unemployed. But I certainly know my skill level and I would not accept a Senior position until I had more practical "hands on" experience and could learn from a guru.

So I say go ahead and become certified especially if it helps you get a job. But keep in mind, that being certified implies a certain level of knowledge and you better be able to perform at that level.

[Ionstorm]

If you aren't certified you cannot get a job....If you cannot get a job you cannot gain experience .... I agree that no one should pass themselves off as experts BUT EVERYONE LIES TO GET THE JOB...how much does HR actually know? I have only been to 1 interview where they actually tested me (and i passed) . All the others take your word and judge what you say (and i have talked to senior db level and up)

Please tell me how you are supposed to get started without at least a head start with the OCP ??? I agree with smcdmc about what its like trying to get a job.

I have been working on MS SQL stuff for 3 years and my resume has been turned down 20 or so times BECAUSE I didn't have MCSE ... now I have that paper and 'lo and behold I get job offers ...

Now I want to get out of the 75k salary and move up to Oracle DBA and without experience in oracle stuff I doubt I will get far. SO I am planning on getting my OCP and saying that I have 3 years experience in DBA stuff...

I am competing against dozens of resumes where the stupid HR people are comparing years of experience and certs AND THATS IT...THAT is the real way things are done in LA ...SO the only way to get a job is get your cert and LIE about experience...Everyone gets the job and then LEARNS while there....every ISP I know has their DB's learning on the job...

The bottom line is companies want good people but DONT WANT TO PAY TOO MUCH...so they take those with less experience so they can pay them less and they learn as they go...
So I guess what I am saying is take the test even if you don't have experience with it ... then learn what you can on your own and LIE to get the job which will give you the experience you need

[Edited by Ionstorm on 03-23-2001 at 06:07 PM]

[kmesser]

OCP has value. But honestly, who here would hire based solely upon a certification, without considering the rest of a person's knowledge and experience? Not me!

Clearly, someone who cannot learn/comprehend the subject matter cannot pass the tests; nor can someone without commitment. For these reasons alone, there is value to certification. In addition, there is value to the academic study of this field, and it does prepare you for a JR DBA type role, particularly with a CS degree and/or some other IT experience such as programming or xbase to go along with it.

Of the three opportunities to promote youself (education, experience, certification), clearly experience is by far the most powerful. However, a college education in CS does indicate you probably have a wide base of general IT knowledge and an aptitude for the field that can be very useful. Certification is similar to education in that it is book learning rather than work experience. However, that OCP does prove that at least once, you understood in a general way the breadth of Oracle's capabilities. It is kind of superficial, but it complements experience nicely, particularly if you have long experience at a small or limited-functionality shop. For example, if you have only worked at a 9-5 OLTP shop running a few production instances at most, you might not even understand advanced replication or parallel server, and might not use RMAN or any external backup software at all. But if you have OCP, I know you've at least been exposed to the basics of it, and could probably get up to speed quickly given your other knowledge of Oracle.

By itself, OCP is clearly far less valuable than either experience or a college education, and in that circumstance probably approaches zero value. It shows some determination and interest in Oracle when combined with college, and indicates a more complete DBA when combined with significant DBA experience.

[nansbrain]

Friends,

No point in getting perturbed....we should accept the fact...always EXPERIENCE wins over CERTIFICATION....

I do agree completing OCP requires effort and enduarnce...
There are myriad proportions who after completing their OCP stumble even at the first hurdle.

Pando and Jeff are clear in what they mean, may be Jeff would have put strong words saying he would prefer people self motivated rather than money minded. DBA is a responsible position and a mission critical job where we can't try a raw hand.

Yes it is tough to start a career as a DBA, so it is in all discipline.

Certification can be a value addition, but it is not all.

There is always scope for learning at any moment what ever the experience one may have.

CERTIFICATION and EXPERIENCE goes hand in hand, let us try to accept FACT.

Nanda.

[star]

Hi !

I agree that certification alone doesn't convert a person into DBA.But I feel that everyone who address themselves as experienced ,should have been a fresher at one point of time either with or without certification.If they had the confidence to become a DBA, whynot the certified without experience.

[cmai]

1. An experienced DBA proves that he/she has reached the current step.
2. A certified person shows that he/she has potential to go further than his standing point.

Both must be needed to become a good DBA, in a standard viewpoint.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think an OCP without experience is rated similarly to a 1yr Jr. DBA since that person proves that he/she is capable of learning on the job.

To become a DBA is merely an opportunity.