I agree that there are situations where you can't help but to follow the orders even if you don't agree with the solution.
I remember a new project came up at our company the database and backup methodology was designed at partner company. The partner company wanted to implement the same thing at our site. They sent me documents and asked me to do exactly what was documented.
I went through the documented and was amused with there backup methodology. It was a small db runnig on WinNT. They have two machines with exactly same confguration. On the main server they have batch jobs to shutdown th db and backup all the drives. Then they move whole backup to another machine (kinda c: to c:, d: to d: etc). They called the other machine "standby server". And they do it on weekly basis. On daily basis they copy the archive logs to another server.
I contacted the people there and tried to explain them that this is not the correct way to do it BUT they wanted EXACTLY same as documents. I agreed on a condition that I will not be taking care of this db after installation and setup.
You know they still call me whenever they run into trouble but not ready to change the way they backup.
Oracle Certified Professional 8i, 9i.
"The degree of normality in a database is inversely proportional to that of its DBA"
I don't think that kinda clients/corporates exist in this internet era who can wait for couple of hours to bring their database back on line with import and no indexes and creating indexes again might take some time again.
Originally posted by patel_dil
It depends on the kind of application and environment one works for. I would modify stecal's line to "DBA who thinks export...."
I'm assuming here decent size database if not, Well! One can take cold backup of all the files assoicated with database on Sunday in the middle of the night. May be Public sector is an exception as no one is gonna get fired even if the database crash. OR fix it while users spend their time in cafetaria.
I'm missing something here how does it matter to application what kinda B&R methodology you use for database. If I'm managing the database, I'm responsible for data on database not my manager. I will take the best solution for B&R not what manager wants cuz, he is favorite of Exp/Imp. Unless they do not want to give me hard disk to save my backup files (In that case I will not be having disk for exp dumps either).
Originally posted by patel_dil
Like I said before, many time you have to just do what you are told to by your manager.
This is not for the sake of argument but, for the sake of dba who needs take best measures for safe guarding the data on the database he is responsible for.
Last edited by sreddy; 05-21-2003 at 02:33 PM.
Yeah! I understand now. But if you think over from B&R perspective Is'nt its lot easier to have daily hot backup midnight which takes away costs on disk for archive logs. DBAs can recover within 15 to 30 minutes rather few hours to import and recreate indices and go from there.
Thats whole another story of enabling archive mode and issues with performance which can be tuned for optimum performance. I don't see benifits having only exp/imp B&R methodology. I see only the practical benefit off of exp/imp methodology is object level recovery (Human mistakes of table drops etc.) Anyway, it has become more likedebate now
I was talking from the perspective of making dba day-to-day life easier considering mean time to recover with minimal available resources. If corporate mgmt do not understand and don't give a damn, obviously dba will not give a damn for how long it take to bring database back online.
I don't think effort of recovery from exp/imp is equivalent to the effort from hot backup. Corporate Mgmt doesn't know how to use resources effectively or they will stick to what they beleive and never explore options for better infrastructure. Nobody help 'em anyway.
I think I mentioned a few times, people deserve the corresponding responses from anyone, not just the moderators, the way they ask or the effort they have done before ask. A forum is not a school, a learning center, a support center, a free consultancy or free consultants. Unfortunately it seems that many think this is one of those places. WRONG!
Originally posted by shibha
That sticky is very unfriendly. There are ways to convey your message. Although there are no rules as to how moderators should address the mass public, it's just curtesy to say things nicely. Although each of the points are very valid.
the problem withj export import is not that you can lose 24 hour or 48 hours data whateever
the problem is you need to recreate a new database, import is slow as hell, can your company afford 5 ~6 hours downtime (for a small database)? our development database ranges from 10gb to 100gb, if I had to restore the 50gb+ ones how long it would take? probably one whole day, with backup takes one hour or less or more but not a whole day that's for sure
if you can afford that downtime so then go ahead and do your export/import
Last edited by pando; 05-21-2003 at 02:56 PM.
And how on earth you recover a table in a production OLTP database with import? Considering the table is not a lookup/parent/dimension table?
Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
Most of the time you are recovering one table.
I just wanted to re-emphasize the point about providing feedback. My last 'sabbatical' I took from this forum was after I had worked out an incredibly complicated (in my opinion, at least) problem for someone. This took a lot of time and effort on my part and I was quite proud of what I came up with. The person showed their appreciation by....
...well, by doing nothing, actually. That left a very bad taste in my mouth and I decided to take a break from the board - for several months.
I don't expect anyone to send me roses or anything, just a simple 'that worked' would be fantastic.
That's the give-and-take dynamic of a board like this.
If you post a question, you do it because you need help. If we provide this free help, it is generally not out of the goodness of our hearts. We want something back. That something can be simple relief of boredom, or the fear and respect of all our peers (a guy can dream, right?) But mostly, it's to exercise our brains and learn. That learning process is kinda difficult without any feedback.
The process should be:
- You ask
- Someone answers
- You tell them if it worked or not.
- And a 'thank you' wouldn't kill you, either.
Ok, I certainly agree with all of what is said here, and getting a little thank you on occasion is not asking a whole lot. BUT…this is no excuse for some of the downright nasty comments I have seen from some “moderators”. Some actually seem to post more venom than help the community. I can’t understand that, why would you want to chase away new people from this website. Let’s face it, if no one visits dbasupport.com there will be no dbasupport.com, no?
I remember when this place was cool.
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