Paper DBA!
DBAsupport.com Forums - Powered by vBulletin
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: Paper DBA!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    8
    Hello Professionals,

    This has been a very informative and useful forum. I have seen a number of experienced pros. giving their valuable input in this forum. Thanks to all these folks.

    There has been a lot of talk, in this forum, about Paper-DBAs vs. DBAs with real-world experince.

    It is true that no company will hire a paper-DBA just on the certification. But, as one does not have experience, he/she cannot be hired, and because one can't get hired, he/she cannot gain real-world experience as DBA.

    It boils down to how to get a break, after becoming "paper-DBA". I have not seen a position of 'junior DBA'. (or a position where an inexperienced paper-dba can gain experience). I believe that most of the people who pass the OCP, have some IT experience (or already working as DBA).
    In my case, i have been working as developer and now in the middle of dba-certification process (OCP).

    Any suggestions are welcome!

    Thanks a lot for your time and input.

    PraKul

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    117
    While, indeed , there's a lot of ppl who are so called paper certify. Disregard is Microsoft, Oracle or others.

    Some of them can even took all the exams, by reading third party guides or dumps to get themselves to certify.And,never go through the practise or labs on how to use the product.

    when, they apply for the jobs, they told the employer they know the stuffs. But, in the end, they can't work it out. Even for basic admin, tuning ,maintenance or others.

    This certainly will lower down the values of the certs. I mean everyone have their own goals or motive to acheive. It's all up to individual. To know, what they wants.

    Okie, if you are certify for Oracle. Everyday, you spend 2 hours or more to practise all the labs or simulation. Reading articles from Oracle Magazine, forums and books. And, you are able to go around without any problem, doing the administration, tunining, maintenance on the database.Become so confidence, you are able to manage the database. Go ahead and apply the DBA jobs. Why bother to wait.

    When, ppl are born into this world, they came with nothing, we can't expect everyone know everything. we have to pick up knowledges, when, times comes by. I believe those ppl who work with database or others field. They started from scratch, slowly climb up their career path.

    For my case, look at my certs, i hold quite no of them. Some ppl in this forum, dun even bother to check my background, what am i doing, if i face a problem, i posted a thread, they straight away tell you off. I am paper certified. I mean, we have to tactful in the sense of answering ppl questions and help them if we are able to. Not to bash ppl up for nothing. I would told them,if i am so called paper certify, we will post a problem, if we know the products, how fast, what kind of solutions are we going to apply, to solve this problem. They just disappear.

    To mean, the way, i put in, might sound foolish or childish. We are working professional adults, why resort in this manner.

    Most important,if you are really keen on taking up a Oracle DBA jobs, try to learn as much as possible, talk to ppl who are working with Oracle, learn from them. But, only learn from those, who are willigly to impart their skills to you. Dun bother those guys who keep talking nonsense and not willigly to help. Practise the Oracle till your test server crash or screw up. And solve it by yourself, if possible.

    How to define a expert. An expert might not be a guru . Is a person who are able to find answers in the shortest time and solve it. Of course, they also must equip with good knowledges.

    My advice, get certify, learn all the examples from the books, practise as hard as you can, seek advice from ppl, read as much books if possible. I believe you can find your own world in this DBA roles.

    All the best to you.

    Cheers!!!
    MCSE,MCDBA,MCSD,CCNA,CCDA,CCSA,CCSE, MCSA, SCSA, OCP

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    greenwich.ct.us
    Posts
    9,092
    I've probably said this a thousand times in this forum, but being a DBA is not an entry level job.

    My advice is to stay a developer. Learn all you can about Oracle and how it works. Learn the difference between production and development (and BTW, production is not the database with the better data). After a couple of years, you'll be ready for a Jr. DBA role.

    Jeff Hunter
    marist89@yahoo.com
    http://marist89.blogspot.com/
    Get Firefox!
    "I pledge to stop eating sharks fin soup and will not do so under any circumstances."

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    1,203
    Originally posted by marist89
    I've probably said this a thousand times in this forum, but being a DBA is not an entry level job.
    1001 times actually....

    I'm not getting involved in this discussion AGAIN... it must be posted int he forums every month.

    *can't stay away*... dammit.

    Okay, I think Experience first, certification later.
    OCP 8i, 9i DBA
    Brisbane Australia

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    21
    It's combination of following:

    A. Real hard work (if someone has not taken the shortcut for passing OCP)

    B. Previous IT experience, particularly any kind of Database related exposure, does not matter whether it comes as a Developer or anything else

    C. Presentation skill during the interview to give a reasonable comfort level about your abilities. I am not advocating to "misrepresent" during the interview but present the facts in more appropriate way so that it gives an impression that even though one is not having a real experience, he/she is ready to take on challenge.

    D. Good fate to get a break

    E. Ability to apply the knowledge in the job, also learn from mistakes and see how others are doing the work. Refer to many books, forum and any other source to see how the same work could have been done. After all DBA WORK IS NOT A ROCKET SCIENCE, it is a responsible job but with cautious approach one can definitely acquire the skill.
    Remember one day each DBA had the same state as a new entry level DBA has. In fact things have become much easier for anyone to start as a DBA in present times with so much of resources available on internet and books.

    F. Imagine, imagine and imagine about different scenarios in database and try to find a solution beforehand..a kind of proactive approach so that one is ready before problem hits.

    I generally speaking would like new DBAs start in the above way. There are many who feel that DBAs can never be born and they come from a different world!

    However, I must say that the reality is a far cry from the above, new DBAs are trying to take a shortcut approach. In the long run that shortcut approach is not going to help. Also, there are old seasoned DBAs who are not changing with times and have stuck with the old concepts and they are the ones who feel perhaps insecure and do not want to see the new DBAs coming in!
    Sanjay Jha
    Oracle Certified Professional 8,8i,9i
    IBM Certified Advanced Technical Expert - DB2 Data Replication
    IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 UDB V7.1 Database Administration for OS/390
    IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 UDB V7.1 Database Administration for UNIX, Windows and OS/2

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    greenwich.ct.us
    Posts
    9,092
    Originally posted by freemind
    Also, there are old seasoned DBAs who are not changing with times and have stuck with the old concepts and they are the ones who feel perhaps insecure and do not want to see the new DBAs coming in!
    I'm not sure if I should take offence to this or not...

    The old DBAs are old because they've deleted control files while the database was up. We're old because we relied on exp as our backup methodology (Don't even get me started on that one). We're old because we're tired of chasing down ORA-600 and ORA-7445's that Oracle should have fixed in the .7 patchset. We're tired of telling every hot-shot newly minted "OCP DBA" that when you drop a partition, the global index is marked unusable. We've been there, we've done that.

    You should operate your career as a business. If you see other businesses getting a technological edge on you, it's either time to upgrade your business or get into a new business. IBM isn't around today because they were good at building Typewriters and Mainframes.
    Jeff Hunter
    marist89@yahoo.com
    http://marist89.blogspot.com/
    Get Firefox!
    "I pledge to stop eating sharks fin soup and will not do so under any circumstances."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    2,645
    It's a catch-22 situation: It takes experience to get experience. You have to be proactive in your approach to getting a DBA - junior or otherwise - position. A lot of industries/companies are like that. How do you get SAP experience, for example? You can get lucky by being in a company that implements it. Same with Siebel. You take that experience and build on it. Oracle is not much different. Find a hole or opening that is Oracle-related (software quality assurance is an excellent springboard) and build on that experience. As a developer, you can do the same thing - become the "database expert" within your development group, take on all the database development tasks, offer to do (or learn how to) Oracle installs for your group, and so on. That gives you experience and sets you up to be a junior DBA (not that there are that many jr DBA jobs being advertised these days, and that leads to the same situation as any other job hunter - target a few companies, focus your resume, get informational interviews, etc.).

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    21
    No...I did not want to offend "ALL" the old seasoned DBAs. But see yourself around, there are many in this industry who do not welcome "changes". What you are pointing out is nothing but improvement in the software, having faced those problems in old times do not necessarily makes someone a better DBA. Like it or not "experience is not always the best to have", "unlearning curve" is longer than a "learning curve". There are many bright DBAs knocking the doors but what I was pointing out, there are "some" (not ALL) old seasoned DBAs who are in the interview boards, who for some reasons want to see only past experience, ignoring the fact that these fresh guys will bring some new concepts, bew ideas and they ought to be given reasonable chances.
    I agree that it is the business and in the business what takes edge over anything else is "professionalism" and "cost-effectiveness". No wonder I hear many old seasoned DBAs mentioning about "bringing down their hourly rates", even though they have so much of experience, they can't command the market...!
    Sanjay Jha
    Oracle Certified Professional 8,8i,9i
    IBM Certified Advanced Technical Expert - DB2 Data Replication
    IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 UDB V7.1 Database Administration for OS/390
    IBM Certified Solutions Expert - DB2 UDB V7.1 Database Administration for UNIX, Windows and OS/2

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Up s**t creek
    Posts
    1,525
    Just thought I'd add my 2 cents to this one

    I totally aggree with Jeff here, to say "experience is not always the best to have" is a little short sighted that fact that you may have new concepts and ideas does not necessairly mean they are good and/or useful. Anyone who has worked on Oracle (or indeed any mainstream software house) knows that newest is not always best.

    A seasoned DBA will have experience of not only the Oracle product but will also be aware of the pitfalls of impleneting new technology too fast "just because it's there" generally because of their experience of cocking it up some time in the past. If you work in a mission critial environment the last thing you want is to employ somebody who steams in with 101 great ideas on how to improve your current installations without having the practial knowledge to backup the claim. Generally 90% of those great ideas and new concepts with cause severe disruptions simply because your application was never developed to embrace these tecnological advances - and how will you know that? ... only by expereience!

    There is nothing wrong with obtaining a qualiaction without practical experience but you have to know your limits and sadly many don't - They think that because they have an OCP, MSCE, etc they are an expert and everything they have learnt runs exactly as it says in the manually and in the books, if only that where true

    You have to learn to walk before you can run

    Just my opinion

    Regards
    Jim
    Oracle Certified Professional
    "Build your reputation by helping other people build theirs."

    "Sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit but its still funny"

    Click HERE to vist my website!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Madrid, Spain
    Posts
    7,447
    to pass OCP is not hard, probably only 5% of questions in the exams are tricky, you can afford to fail those 5% and still pass

    but OCP questions are really basic stuffs

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Click Here to Expand Forum to Full Width