Turned off by Oracle User group
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Thread: Turned off by Oracle User group

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
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    Thumbs down

    Reading a message from another post prompted me to write this one. The poster was talking about Senior DBAs who think certification is useless. Well, I have my own story to back that up.

    I recently stated going to an Oracle User Group meeting. It was so-so and I wanted to get involved so I went to a "board" meeting and volunteered for one of their projects.

    The meeting was at a local Oracle solution provider's company since most of the members work there. I saw a lot of acheivement plaques on the wall and commented to one of them that nearly everyone there must be certified and his response was "Actually only one person here is certified.....certification is not only useless, but meaningless."

    Needless to say this really turned me off and they seemed even more pompous and full of themselves after that. They had no welcome for people new to Oracle and practically scoffed when I said I am a System Administrator who wants to get into DBA work.

    So, this all turned me off so badly I'm thinking about dropping Oracle and pursuing some other type of knowledge. What I have found is that Oracle is VERY expensive and only a few of the major employers around here use Oracle, so if I actually wanted to find a job, I'd have to relocate. I'm thinking that it isn't worth it and I should just concentrate on something else.

    It really sucks because I had some good momentum going and now I'm about to quit because I feel like I'm wasting my time. Anyone want to buy some discounted NetG materials??

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    I've often though the OUG suffers from a sense of extreme self importance. I've seen little from them that would make me part with my cash on a regular basis. It doesn't surprise me that some of these people don't rate OCP. It's a typical response of people who have too much to lose if they are seen to fail.

    Oracle is expensive, and this certainly prevents alot of companies from using it. On the plus side, the companies that are willing to pay for it are usually willing to pay good money for good staff, hence the continued interest by new developers/DBAs.

    Nothing you learn is wasted! That said, if you think you'll get work easier by learning other skills then do it. You have to pick an area that will open up the biggest job market you can find. In my opinion RDBMS knowledge is very useful. Most serious development projects use a DB backend, and companies tend to change backend less often than development tools. In addition alot of the skills are transferable-ish.

    Make the right decision for you!

    Good luck.
    Tim...
    OCP DBA 7.3, 8, 8i, 9i, 10g, 11g
    OCA PL/SQL Developer
    Oracle ACE Director
    My website: www.oracle-base.com
    My blog: www.oracle-base.com/blog

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Germany
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    As a freelancer, I am absolutely certain that I get higher rates and more attention from recruiters than those who are not certified. It is a soft market right now and every bit of marketing value helps.

    If your acquaintences operate as a monopoly in the local market, then they probably don't care and don't need to care.

    Microsoft certifications are a commodity, Oracle, Cisco, Checkpoint and Sun are not (in my market).

    Where are you located? Oracle seems to be present in most markets where there is any IT.

    David Knight
    OCP DBA 8i, 9i, 10g

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
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    C'mon shaggy, we are a fun bunch aren't we. We need guys like us to breathe some life into these stale self-important "Scene your" DBA's. That is another reason I love the department I am in, none of the DBA's here are like that, they would be bounced out. And believe me we have some very experienced people here and some of the biggest DB2 databases in the world.

    There is nothing I hate more than self bloated self-important schmucks, they exist in all fields. Music, oh my god!! self important musicians are a dime a dozen and few are really any good. I think "Doctors" take the cake though, I worked in a Psyche hospital for a while and there is nothing worse than some holier than though doctor that is afraid to get their hands dirty. Unbelievable!!

    The truth is that most of the truly talented people are usually very nice and humble. I've been lucky enough to meet some extraordinary musicians in my time and most of the real monsters are great people. So don't let them get you down shaggy, just do what I do. Bust in there in a clown outfit armed with a paintball gun and let them have it!!

    If you don't have a sense of humor please stay out of my life!!

    MH

    I remember when this place was cool.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    113
    shag: maybe this can help. I know a DBA that is not certified and is currently seeking employment. He has also said that being an OCP is worthless. Every interviewer has asked him why he has not become certified. He has 4-5 yrs experience as an Oracle DBA. I happened to find out that he took the first OCP test and failed it. He didn't want to bother with actually preparing for the test. Now he wishes he had become certified. He just thought you can pass off experience. Many people tend to put down things they are jealous of.

    As far as being turned off to Oracle in general, if you enjoy it then learn it. Don't let ignorant people make your decisions for you!!!!

  6. #6
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    I also know of a similar case: an Oracle "guru" being in the field since Version 5 but neither Version 5, not Version 6 will help you pass the 8i or 9i exams :-) Oracle has grown so much that almost nothing is left from the old releases. And what is being left is so modified so that things need to be reread: meaning that only experience in daily tasks means nothing. Anybody can do routine jobs. The point of certification is the ability to perform different Oracle jobs.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
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    59
    Originally posted by TimHall
    In addition alot of the skills are transferable-ish.

    Make the right decision for you!
    Good luck.
    Tim, you make a lot of good points and the first skill I studied for (SQL) is definitely transferable-ish. I'm still searching for the right answer for me.

    Originally posted by dknight
    If your acquaintences operate as a monopoly in the local market, then they probably don't care and don't need to care.

    Where are you located? Oracle seems to be present in most markets where there is any IT.
    dknight - You hit the nail on the head. I was kind of hoping to get the inside track to work with this company because the do have a monopoly on the local Oracle market, but I have no desire to work there now.

    I'm in Toledo, OH which is a medium size city and growing fast. We have the corporate headquarters for Owens-Corning, Owens-Illinois, HCR Manorcare and other lage companies that use Oracle, but not enough to sustain a large support network specializing in Oracle.

    Originally posted by Mr.Hanky
    C'mon shaggy, we are a fun bunch aren't we.
    This is true...I was laughing out loud in my office the other day when reading one of these threads


    There is nothing I hate more than self bloated self-important schmucks, they exist in all fields. Music, oh my god!!
    I can relate, I play guitar and drums and have been in a few decent bands. There are SO many guitar players out there and they ALL think they are GOD. Definitely a joke.


    So don't let them get you down shaggy, just do what I do. Bust in there in a clown outfit armed with a paintball gun and let them have it!!
    Although that sounds like much fun, I'm thinking that the legal ramifications would be too much trouble, unless I dont' get caught...


    If you don't have a sense of humor please stay out of my life!!
    Well, I do have a sense of humor, but I'm not ready for anything intimate right now.

    Originally posted by psychofun
    Many people tend to put down things they are jealous of.

    As far as being turned off to Oracle in general, if you enjoy it then learn it. Don't let ignorant people make your decisions for you!!!!
    I'm definitely trying to really examine what I want and not let this stuff get to me, however, its like I said before, these are the people who I was hoping to work for...

    Julian,

    I very much agree with you about the routine job thing...I think studying for certification might not make you know everything, but at least you know OF everything so that you don't miss possible solutions to future problems.

    I am really at a critical time in my career life. I'm having trouble deciding which direction to go. I very much want to start my own outsourcing business and I have half of my business plan complete. The problems with this are many: no job security, no regular paycheck, private health insurance, etc... The payoffs are large potential earnings, not making money for someone else, having some control over the direction of the company, schedule freedom, and doing what I like (for the most part hopefully)

    I have interests in many things right now, the big three of which are Linux, Oracle and XML. My biz would be mostly network, hardware and software support and not much developing. Basically system/network administration with help desk thrown in. I believe that it is a very viable business model and I also think that I can save a lot of businesses a lot of money and make some myself too. The tough part is getting started (read lack of capital).

    Anyway, I do think Oracle is very interesting and I have been learning a good deal of useful info by studying Oracle, so I haven't entirely given up, but I'm not gonna live forever and I need to make a decision about direction soon and then stick to it...even if I do get turned off once in a while.

    Thanks for the replies guys!

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Location
    Germany
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    In addition to musicians, doctors, and senör DBAs, Mr. Hanky omitted lawyers from the list of those full of themselves. :-)
    David Knight
    OCP DBA 8i, 9i, 10g

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
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    3,131
    Originally posted by dknight
    In addition to musicians, doctors, and senör DBAs, Mr. Hanky omitted lawyers from the list of those full of themselves. :-)
    Sorry, I thought they were sub-human scum and not to be regarded. Truth is that I have no experience working with lawyers.

    MH
    I remember when this place was cool.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    261
    People from HR usually are impressed if you are certified, however HR plays only a part of the hiring process. Senior DBAs w/o an OCP cert are usually skeptic about DBA /Jr DBA with an OCP cert because they are too arrogant to study for the exam and they dont have to guts to take it.

    well thats reality =( i think we shouldnt let them bother us. Achieving an OCP status requires a lot of effort and decipline, that itself is an achievement that arrogant Sr DBAs cant have!
    The Maverick
    Oracle Certified DBA - 8i

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