Love for data(base admin work)

Admit it, you're waiting for That 80's show as well...

Anyhow, I wanted to get some insight into the journey into becoming a seasoned DBA...especially from experienced seniors like Julian, Marist89.0, Mr. Hanky , The Turkish Bazaar DBA, and other OCP DBA's:

How were you introduced into the db world, especially Oracle (college/work/elsewhere) ?

How long after being exposed to Oracle did you become OCP DBA's ?

What is the satisfaction level of being a full fledged DBA...(eg. I am satisfied and want to be a DBA for life/ I want to switch careers / Want a managerial position /DBA life is tough/DBA life rocks , etc)

By the way, have any of the DBA's here obtained the SCJP designation, because I'm gunning for that as well...

(Mr. E Haskins of http://www.oraknowledge.com for OCP training is also welcome to provide his valuable input)

Are you an Oracle dba ?

It sounds to me as though you have doubts as to whether or not you want to take this journey.

True, the journey is long and hard and I am somewhere in the middle of that journey.

The interest stems from hunger and wanting for knowledge required to administer large systems with many components.

It is quite easy to master applications such as sqlserver but once mastered, what then ?

Oracle isn't like that, just when you think you have truely understood a part of it, you read something or experience an area of the subject you never thought existed and your learning continues. Now multiply this situation by the many components that make up Oracle and you will begin to get a picture of the amount of time and effort an Oracle DBA must put in and the tanacious attitude required to succeed.

This is why senior DBA's are expected to have 4+ years of experience before warranting being called a senior SBA.

New releases of the software and new tools/functionality mean the learning never ends.

I am in the beggining of the journey, junior dba

Oracle Corporation considers a DBA senior when he has over 8 years experience when they want to hire one, at least in this country :)

What experience with Oracle (and in the IT industry as a whole) do you have? Why do you want to go for the Oracle OCP Certification?
It is hard work, I am studying as well. It does seem, that finally the job market is picking up rather strongly. Those with experience who are out of work, should get snatched up rather quickly in the next few months. So, maybe those of us with certifications (and degrees) will get a chance.

Good Luck

Sureshy wrote: [It sounds to me as though you have doubts as to whether or not you want to take this journey.]

No, in fact I am determined. No matter how frustrating it might be. The reason I posted the original post was to get insight from the OCP DBA's (who've been condescendingly silent or dilligently busy administering DB's!) and how they like their career and how they got there.

NickL, I have an engineering background, but my exp in IT so far has been in web development and I have some programming background. DBA's have always been in high demand (barring economic anamolies). Even in the latest IT demand reports, DBA are the third most desired IT skill. Networking (CCNA, CCNP, CNIE, CNE etc) are the most desired IT specialization right now but it's very hard to break into Networking without practical experience. Besides, the likes of OSI/RM layers and TCP/IP are not nearly as fulfilling as working with db's. You might hopefully just be right about the economical improvement, it was supposed to have bottomed out in December...

Pando, you're too modest. I would say you're far in excess of any junior DBAs I've worked with!

In answer to your question SpeedRacer:

I made a career move from Genetic Engineering to IT by working 4 months for free in a software house writing pharmaceutical trial software in Forms 4.0. I'd never heard of Oracle but had done a bit of C programming at college a few years before. I was keen so I got given mundane DBA work in addition to my other duties. Since that point I always considered myself as a Developer/DBA.

After a few years and job changes I took a job as a PL/SQL developer but basically worked full time as a DBA. This gave me the confidence to start calling myself a DBA/Developer. In recent years I've concentrated more on DBA roles where some design and development skills are needed. This stops me getting too bored.

I started the OCP stuff because my CV looked more like that of a developer than a DBA. It was basically another confidence boost, but taught me that I didn't know as much as I thought I did. I was good at the day-to-day stuff but didn't see the bigger picture.

I think DBA work alone can be quite dull at times. You can be quite isolated depending on the company culture. I like to do crossover work, getting involved with developers and designers. I think it's important to keep an eye on all parts of the process so you can get to potential problems, like bad design and coding, early before they become ingrained into the project.

Why the interest?

Tim, thanks for sharing your experiences. Why have you chosen to be a freelance DBA, are there more pros ? I've heard about potential isolation of DBA's who others in the company refer to as Dont Bother Asking (DBA) ...

hmm it's not modest! I am a Junior, I have been working with Oracle for 1 year and 4 months roughly :)
Before that I didnt do much since I was in traning period for about 2 months, well if you could call that training hehe :D

Btw Tim are you in U.K? How's freelance there...? Freelance job in Spain is virtually zero, a big risk going for freelance in Spain, I wonder how's UK! I have been there for 4 years doing my degree, to be honest and not offending the weather is ugly :p

Have you attended Jonathan Lewis's 3 Day Seminar... or know anyone who has :-?

[Edited by pando on 01-19-2002 at 04:01 PM]

Pando:

I'm surprised. I thought you'd been DBAing for longer than that!

Freelance in the UK wasn't too bad until about 4 months ago. We've been hit by the global slowdown like everyone else. Fortunately I get more work by word-of-mouth than by agencies these days so it's not so bad for me.

I wouldn't recommend making the jump to freelance at the moment unless you can get a long term contract.

The weather does suck ass, but you get used to it. One of my friends is originally from Croatia and he quite likes it here. The summers aren't too hot and the winters aren't too cold. Unfortunately it rains alot :)

SpeedRacer:

Isolation is down to peoples personality. I've sometimes felt isolated at the start of a contract, but rarely at the end. If you're quiet and lack confidence you will get isolated in any job. If you enjoy talking and working with people isolation isn't a problem.

Pros of freelance are extra money, less office politics and less boredom as you get to try different things.

Cons are cost and irritation of running your own company, fear of being out of work, some peoples attitudes to freelance people and cost and time of training.

For me the pros outweight the cons. I hate getting drawn into office politics and I have a very low boredom threshold. I like the freedom you get from doing a job and leaving before it gets tedious. I'm not the sort of person that could cope with babysitting a system. I'm not criticising that type of work, it's just not for me. I've turned down a number of offers of permanent work that would be more lucrative than freelance because I like the life, so far.

About 50% of the freelancers I know have recently gone back to permanent work. The changes in the taxation law in the UK have made freelance less profitable now.

As long as I can get work I'll stay freelance even if the money is worse than permanent, but it's not for everyone.

[Edited by TimHall on 01-21-2002 at 03:47 AM]

Hey Speed Racer;

Well thanks for the compliment but I am hardly even a junior DBA. I started in this department 7 months ago after completing my Oracle8 DBA OCP in November of 2000. Prior to that I had 2 1/2 years on the help desk here at my company. This was supporting mostly proprietary applications running on NT and OS2. I have documented my bio on this page a few times over the last year so I really do not want to do it again.

I am just fortunate to have a few seniors to learn from, a big company with lots of databases and a great department that gave me a chance.

As I have said before and Jeff has mentioned as well it is not always what you know but who. It is also very VERY important to be personable, no Oracle shop is going to take you in if you don't "fit in" with the rest of the group. Be humble, have fun and learn a lot.

Education wise I am lacking, I was working as a musician for many years mostly teaching and working the counter at the music store. I did not decide to change careers until about 3 1/2 years ago, I went to a local Computer School (Chubb) and started on the help desk. I got my OCP and shoehorned my way into this department. I love it here, the people are great and the job is more rewarding, the help desk was awful!!


Keep a sense of humor and treat serious things seriously.

MH

pando

how do you learn so much in 1.5 years???

You are not lieing us arent you?

d0h I feel offended :D

Quote:

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Originally posted by pando
d0h I feel offended :D

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:) ...What a guy.. btw, you posted about 3000 msges since you joined this forum so on average you posted around 10 mesges/working day. Do you work 18 hrs/day??

Quote:

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Originally posted by pando
d0h I feel offended :D

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offensive, maybe... http://www.3dpcgame.com/cwm/s/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif

no... I dont work 18 hours but this Oracle stuff got all my interests these 1.5 years, I spend my work time on the forum and at home as well, even before I go to bed :D

But I guess this is how I learned? Look other's problems and try to fix them here by reading and testing so I can learn from people's problems

I spend quite a lot of time reading and testing (not that much reading since I get bored really quick when I have to read), everyday including weekends. Unfortunately I dont have much luck in getting jobs, a real dba job in a challenging enviroment. So far I have been in two true dba jobs but the database werent too big. Now that I am in a Telco with hundreds of databases I am not working as a true dba but guess this is how life works, some good times and some bad. My boss wants me to get certified in Oracle 8i & 9i may be I will just do it to satisfy his desires hehe

Quote:

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Originally posted by pando
Look other's problems and try to fix them here by reading and testing so I can learn from people's problems

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I agree. By answering questions in this forum, you become exposed to topics you may not need in your day-to-day duties.

Quote:

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My boss wants me to get certified in Oracle 8i & 9i may be I will just do it to satisfy his desires hehe

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I find this strange. I think it is usually the DBA's wish, whim, whatever to get certified :-) How come your boss even knows of the programme?

he used to be a senior dba but he doesnt deal with much technical stuffs anymore though

I see, he is above the guru-level :-)

Quote:

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Originally posted by julian
I find this strange. I think it is usually the DBA's wish, whim, whatever to get certified :-) How come your boss even knows of the programme?
[/B]

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Certification may or may not improve skills and knowledge, but it seems to have marketing value. :-)

Quote:

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Certification may or may not improve skills and knowledge, but it seems to have marketing value. :-)

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In one way or another certification should always improve at least knowledge, except in the extreme, and I would say impossible case, when you know everything about the area you certify in.

There is another aspect of why your boss (or your company) might be interested in having OCP certified staff. If company wants to become Oracle Certified Partner it is required to have certain number of OCP employees. And looking even strictly from financial aspects - the benefits of being Oracle Certified Partner by far outwage the expences for OCP exams (or even sending staff to ILTs before attending the exams).

Could you explain how please? The only condition, at least in Finland, is to have more than 30% of the revenue derived from the sales of IT products and/or services on the market. There are 3 levels in the Partner Programe: Programme Member, Certified Solution Partner and Certified Solution Advantage Partner but all 3 costs 12752 FIM for one year. I did check the advantages/benefits in all these groups and I did not find any significant differences between Programe Mamber and Certified Solution Partner.

I think to be Oracle Certified Solution Partner you need at least 4 OCPs in the company or 3 OCPs and 2 DBO OCP

[Edited by pando on 01-23-2002 at 09:31 AM]

Quote:

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Originally posted by julian
Could you explain how please? The only condition, at least in Finland, is to have more than 30% of the revenue derived from the sales of IT products and/or services on the market.

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Check again or find better sources. There are many additional conditions to become Certified Partner (or higher), one of them is to have at least 2 OCP in your team. Some of the criteria are mandatory and having OCPs is one of them. Anyhow, each critera is evaluated in points and after summing all the points you have to be above some limit to be accepted as Certified Partner. And it can be no different in Finland, as the evaluation and approoval is done centraly in USA - I know from our own experiences. On the other hand, to be a Programme Member there is almost no requirement appart for anual fee.

Quote:

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I did check the advantages/benefits in all these groups and I did not find any significant differences between Programe Mamber and Certified Solution Partner.

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Did you realy? And you don't find unlimited (free!) "Oracle Product Support including 24X7 Phone Support", "MetaLink with iTAR Capabilities", "Upgrade to Product Support including 24X7 Phone Support", "10% Discount on Premium Support Services", various Oracle Consulting and Services offerings, additional E-Bussiness Suite software and services etc... to be "a significant difference"? None of these is available to Programe Members.

I know for my company it pays out multiple times to have OCPs just to be able to be Certified Partner.

[Edited by jmodic on 01-23-2002 at 06:07 PM]

I did check the documents I got from Oracle about the Partner Programme and I confirm what I said before. For the Programme Members there is the revenue condition (30%). We get all the stuff you wrote in bold without being a Certified Member :-) I could fax you the papers, they are in English, and see it for yourself.

I would like to add something. We for example, were not approved as a Partner (even as a Programme Member), because according to Oracle, we are a non-IT company having its own IT department. If it were that easy, all would join and get the 60% (or sometimes 30%) discount. What's more, we would get the development tools for free.





[Edited by julian on 01-25-2002 at 02:06 AM]

How were you introduced into the db world, especially Oracle (college/work/elsewhere) ? Work. I started out my career as a programmer, but was intersted in learning new things. The DBA at the time (who is now my finance) noticed this and started to teach me Oracle (we were using 6 at the time). I've been a DBA for 7 years. I've also been an SA and a manager.

How long after being exposed to Oracle did you become OCP DBA's ? I'm not OCP.

What is the satisfaction level of being a full fledged DBA...(eg. I am satisfied and want to be a DBA for life/ I want to switch careers / Want a managerial position /DBA life is tough/DBA life rocks , etc) I would rather be techincal. I really enjoy being a DBA.