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I am currently a m/f programmer. I would like to eventually make a transition into the dba area. I have a question about data architect/data warehouse architect. Is becoming a dba the proper steps in aiming at data architecture, or does anyone have any type of advice. Somewhat confused. Thanks.
Being in the "DBA" role means different things to different people. Some companies have Data Architects that all they do is design systems. In these companies, DBA's typically perform more of an administrative role. In other companies, DBA's are the guy who knows the most about Oracle but still writes code like anybody else. Others still, the DBA is an intergal piece of the development team that helps with the architecture and implementation. It all depends on the kind of organization you are with.
I guess that is whats so confusing. Which way to go. Will the ocp be a plus on a person like myself
Depends, what's your overall goal? If you are looking to become a data architect, no an OCP DBA will probably not give you tremendous advantage. If you are looking at becoming a DBA with some responsibilities as a data architect, then yes, having an OCP DBA will not hurt. It won't be the answer to all your prayers, but it won't hurt.
The level you are seeking as either a DBA or a Data
Architect is a high level position. Either DBA nor DA is an "entry level" type job. You need to look at a long-term (5 year) plan to get you where you want to be. Look for a job either in your company or another in the same industry you currently are in. Work with some modern development tools (Forms, Java, C++, SQL) and technolgies (Web development, n-tier, even Client/Server) and learn all you can about Relational Design, OO Design, and Modeling. As you work on more systems you will learn all you can about the RDBMS you work on. At that point, you can make a transition to DA or DBA whichever you prefer.
Thanks for your advice marist89. Does anyone else have something to add, say there own experience similar to this. Thnx.
I have started out as a developer then slowly moved into DBA role within the company, after six months or so I'll work on my 9i ocp then look for job in another company.
Hey thats great. Now when you mean developer to dba role, what kind of developer were you? and What are you roles now?. Is moving toword an MIS dept. a good move to get more familiar with databases. One that deals with oracle and unix,nt, etc
HI Kesone,
what happened to me is that I came to US as a developer (Forms , Reports and PL/Sql Programmer) 2 yrs back, I did my OCP developer and when my company had a DBA position?, I just grabbed, niow i have around six months of dba experience and almost 60% OCP 8i. We need to have some kind of break.
Hope this helps.
Gd_1976
I have done development using Developer 2000 and Visual Basics, right now I do Installation and configration, Backup and recovery along with some other Administration Tasks. We are primerlyNT shop but we also have some UNIX boxes as well.
Originally posted by kesone95:
It depends upon your complete background and experience.Quote:
I guess that is whats so confusing. Which way to go. Will the ocp be a plus on a person like myself
If you have a degree in computers or related field, and experience as a developer (preferably in databases), OCP will definitely give boost to your carrier.
Not having an Engineering/ Computer Science degree is a big disadvantage, as I am learning the hard way. I am basically a doc with postgraduation in Biotechnology. I pursued Oracle because of my tremendous interest in the field and appeared in the OCP Exams to prove to myself that I can do it. I passed with good marks but it all seems a waste of effort now.
If I try to change my professional field to database administration/ development, people dont take it seriously. More than the OCP status, they go down and see your fundamental qualifications and experience.
(label1)So my advise is, if you are a computer/ engineering graduate and have experience in database development, go for OCP DBA. Else loop to (label1)
[Edited by Raminder on 10-11-2001 at 02:37 AM]
This is how I see it: OCP is a plus if you already have the knowledge ans experience.
I worked with a reporting tool on the mainframe for about 3 years, then as an Oracle Developer with some modelling responsibilities, and then as a Modeller full time for about 2 years.
I enjoy modelling most of all. At a contract about 2 years ago, the DBA needed help with object sizing and some low level tasks. I never wanted to be a DBA, but after doing some low level duties, I found it to be a very interesting and challenging job.
The skills and attitude required for Developer, Modeller, and DBA are a bit different. If you can get free education and training from your company and opportunities, I would go for it. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Good luck.
Dknight, how did you make the transition from a mainframe reporting tool to an oracle developer position w/o any exp? Everyones views are helpful thanks.
I completed C programming courses at night and later, a nine month program in database design. I got a job using both mainframe and Oracle which eventually became mostly Oracle. My employers have rarely trained me, but I have taken full advantage of tuition reimbursement through night classes. Free education is like free money and it is a great way to network.
My full time DBA role was dumped on me. There was no one on the project with any relational db experience. I have found this to be common though.
I would recommend OCP if you do not have access to a senior Oracle DBA. You need exposure to a wide range of issues. OCP can help identify issues, give you some exposure and some ideas. Experience will make you or break you.
Good luck.
Thats great. The closest to that scenario I could get into is move towards a mainframe/oracle position in my company and work from there. Sure I would take advantage of tuition reinbursement. That is how I would go for the OCP. I will try to move towards an area that will expose me more to rdbms, I guess.
Any one feel free to give their 2 cents, or more if they want.
I have an extensive background in software development going back to 1983 adapting my skills to new programming languages as they come along (i.e RPG, C, Basic, Powerhouse, Rally, VB, Java, etc) . I started at the lowest level using assembly language & C. At this time I was developing devices drivers, process controls interfaces, etc.
In 1986 I started learning more about RDBMS and took courses in data & processing modeling. I then got a job with a consulting company and starting developing business applications using VAX BASIC and RDB. At that time I found the background in RDBMS was invaluable and was often pegged on projects as the data/technical architect.
Since 1992 I have been developing software mainly in VB & Java using MS SQL Server as the database engine. I am a product specialist with MS SQL Server and have found the in-depth knowledge of the product has given me a leg up on other developers who lack such understanding.
I am now making the switch to Oracle mainly because the city I live in is a Capital city and the database of choice has been mandated for all Ministries as Oracle. I plan on staying on the development side (i.e. Database design/application development) … I already know from what I have learnt from taking the first 3 OCP exams and in preparing for the P&T exam (which I am taking tomorrow) that without the OCP DBA certification I would be at a real disadvantage.
If you decide to skip the OCP DBA, I would still recommend writing the A&A and P&T as these to will really open your eyes as to the correct way of developing applications for Oracle.
Hope this helps,
Gee
Hi kesone95, here's my 5 cents if you wanna take it...well, my situation is quite different compared to many peeps in here. I became an Oracle Developer/Junior DBA/monkey boy about 2 yrs ago right after I graduated from university. I didn't really have a strong interest in Oracle at that time. The reason I got that job was that one of the DBAs ran away for another job. Through my 2 yrs working w/ Oracle, I find Oracle is not rocket science , most of the stuffs are quite common sense, if one has previous experience in programming and some O/S knowlege then the learning curve is quite flat. However, I find that being a junior dba the work sometimes can be tedious (well you gotta do everything that senior DBAs don't wanna do...e.g data conversion, daily DBA monitoring tasks and all the monkey works....dammed those DBAs :) ). If you go for the money, then persuing DBA is the right path ( sometimes I think they're way overpaid :) alrite... i'm just joking..) .. statistically, DBA does make more $$ compared to other IT groups and definitely OCP is a plus. I think OCP, if it doesn't help you to get a raise, then it gives you a strong foundation to do your job well. Well, good luck and I hope that you find working w/ Oracle is rewarding.Quote:
Originally posted by kesone95
Any one feel free to give their 2 cents, or more if they want.
True words.Quote:
If you go for the money, then persuing DBA is the right path ( sometimes I think they're way overpaid :) alrite... i'm just joking..) .. statistically, DBA does make more $$ compared to other IT groups and definitely OCP is a plus. I think OCP, if it doesn't help you to get a raise, then it gives you a strong foundation to do your job well. Well, good luck and I hope that you find working w/ Oracle is rewarding.
Something to add: I think that going after OCP only because of the money is by far the worst reason. I even don't think that OCPs get more money than non-OCPs. At least not in Western Europe.
I personally became an OCP for self-confidence and in order to learn more about Oracle. Before I opened the first OCP book I thought that basically I should know almost everything about how to administer Oracle DBs. Boy, how wrong was I! I used to be one of many DBAs who do their job, can have the DB on and running, etc.
Now I know, that a non-OCP cannot simply know half of the things about Oracle. I know DBAs who have worked with Oracle since Oracle 5 but have never heard of a bitmap index, inverse index, stored outlines, RMAN, not to mention how Oracle works internally. And they are good at what they do, they get good salary, they are respected at their jobs. But only after passing those OCP exams you may comprehend what advantage you have to the ordinary DBAs. In one sentence: you know more about Oracle than them, they can hardly surprise you with anything, but *you* can!
Julian,
I think what you're saying is TRUE and I think that should be the main purpose for pursuing OCP. I have to admit that I know much more about Oracle after I read some of their OCP materials and wrote of one of the exams. But these days and especially in the IT industry money (especially when you jump for another job) seems to be the main motivating factor to get certified. Would i get a raise after I completed my OCP ? Nope. Would other companies hire me and willing to pay me more now that I have an OCP ?? For sure. All of my friends got better offers from other companies after they completed OCP program. Did I just started another controversial issue?? :) It would be nice to know the correlation between having an OCP and getting a raise. Did anyone in here get a raise (by staying w/ the same company) after completing OCP?
Let me start this by saying that I am one of the lucky few. For me the OCP was my ticket into the database department at my company. I went from the help desk (yuk!) supporting proprietary applications to the DB department. I had to go to school on my own time and my own dime and complete the OCP. After that it took quite a few months of networking and persistence to land the "Monkey Boy" job. I love that phrase and it is true, I am the DBA gopher and am thankful for that. Although now I do officially have my own DB's to look after (woo hoo!) it is really nice to have a few seniors to bounce ideas off before I drop the system tablespace.
So, there is my example of why OCP is important. Just keep in mind that from what I hear this is not the norm and it took a lot of work to get here. Now the "real" work begins.
MH
I havent taken a single exam and not planning to take any should I re-consider :-?
Hey pando, with your experience and extensive knowledge in Oracle, having an OCP is definitely not bad idea. Lets say you and a clone 'Pando' who has an OCP applying for a dream DBA job, guess who will have an edge?? That's my 2cents
uh thass nice compliments :D
may be I should reconsider... I dont have that much exp neither just about a year and 3 months or so....
Its cool to here everyone's experience. It seems Mr. Hanky really lucked out according to everyone else's background. Good for you Mr. Hanky. Anyone else got there first dba job from getting the ocp?
I got my first job without ocp, got 3 afterwards with experience... got offered a job last week to work in oracle's rdbms premium support services, seems that in oracle they dont look for ocp
may be ocp could help you to get a job... but may be in usa definitely not in europe, the peeps here have a different mind
mr.hanky is probably a different story, he switched from a position to another in same company, in other words he already had a job. I have seen people in shops I have been changed from one position to another because of shortage of technical persons in the desired position and the man himself showed enthuasism and knowledge (even basic but he showed he knew the stuff)
[Edited by pando on 10-15-2001 at 03:46 PM]
I got my start with Oracle DBA when my company bought an application that used Oracle as a backend. The IT group was swamped and wanted nothing to do with it. I bravely said I can do MS Access so I should be able to do Oracle. I jumped in when over my head no other senior DBA there... I learned by fire. That was 6 years ago...... I have since left that company and am working somewhere else as a senior dba. I just got my OCP this year... I did get this job I currently have based on experience not OCP but I figured it can't hurt and forced me to learn Oracle better.
Quote:
Originally posted by GARYM
I got my start with Oracle DBA when my company bought an application that used Oracle as a backend. The IT group was swamped and wanted nothing to do with it. I bravely said I can do MS Access so I should be able to do Oracle. I jumped in when over my head no other senior DBA there... I learned by fire. That was 6 years ago...... I have since left that company and am working somewhere else as a senior dba. I just got my OCP this year... I did get this job I currently have based on experience not OCP but I figured it can't hurt and forced me to learn Oracle better.
GARYM,
This how I got started about 10 months ago. Its good to hear from someone in a similar situation.
mcorbin
[Edited by mcorbin on 10-15-2001 at 09:22 PM]
GARYM , I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it forced you to learn Oracle better.
My wife was a MS Access trainer ... she never did a lot of development with it before getting certificated and even less when she was teaching the course.
On the other hand I learnt the product by working with it for a number of years. She would often present me with tough problems that came up in one of her classes where I was able solve only because of my experience. On the other hand she would often point out a cleaner way to do some task or point me a direction I never new existed.
So in my experience certification can only make you that much better and is well worth the investment in time and money.
Gee
The difference between MS Access and Oracle is like the difference between a server and a waitress :-)
No kidding that's was my ignorence coming though when I thought I could do Acces so Oracle would be no troble..... I was totaly lost for the first 6 months I worked at it. Slowly I started to learn...I spent ours with Oracle docs and the DBA handbook.... But I did learn.. I am not sorry that I had that much trouble at the start I had to learn and learn fast. The only thing that was of any use from my Access learning was the basics of SQL and design.
Julian
Since you didn't figure it out, the point was not trying to compare MS Access to Oracle.
No kidding :-)